Yes, I hear ya there. One of our boxes was a store bought. It was a
pain to find due to the area changing a bit and poor directions. But I
didn't think too much about it. It still went into my book and I'm glad
we found it :)

-Xeen

alterabook wrote:
> I didn't really identify at all with the disappointment of finding a
> store bought stamp in a LB---untill I found one! This was a hard box
> to find---up in British Columbia. We were just driving through, on
> our way back to the states after taking our dd to college in Alberta.
> We tried our best to follow the clues to find a certain waterfall,
> but just couldn't find it. So....we drove 25 miles to the next town,
> went to the Chamber of Commerce and asked if they could tell us where
> these fall were. Turns out that the falls are unmarked, but with
> their area topography map we drove the 25 miles back and were able to
> find the falls, find a place to park off the Trans Canadian
> Highway.....climb over some boulders up a steep "rough foot path" and
> find the box.....we were so excited and proud of ourselves! Then we
> opened the box and found a store bought teacher's stamp that
> said "follow directions". Yes, I enjoyed the hunt. Yes, the falls
> were absolutely gorgeous and we never would have seen them if we
> hadn't been determined to find that box. But it sure would have
> been "icing on the cake" to end up with a unique hand-carved stamp.
>
>
>
>

I'll chime in; "icing on the cake" is very aptly put. One reason I
letterbox rather than geocache is that I am just in LOVE with
people's creativity around this hobby.
If a box has a store bought stamp that I'm aware of, it falls to the
bottom of the list of boxes to pursue. Also... if I know that a
particular planter is fairly lackadaisical about updating
the status of their boxes, they tend to go to the bottom of the list
as well. Unfortunately my time to pursue boxes is very limited so I
tend to seek out boxes I know there's a
higher probability of the box being there to find. I'd rather spend
3 hours seeking a craftily hidden box with a hand carve (no matter
how crude) than spend 15 minutes
looking for a box that was obviously landscaped out of existence
months ago that the planter never bothered to update. But everyone
has their own particular pet peeve. :)


On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:00 AM, alterabook wrote:

> I didn't really identify at all with the disappointment of finding a
> store bought stamp in a LB---untill I found one! This was a hard box
> to find---up in British Columbia. We were just driving through, on
> our way back to the states after taking our dd to college in Alberta.
> We tried our best to follow the clues to find a certain waterfall,
> but just couldn't find it. So....we drove 25 miles to the next town,
> went to the Chamber of Commerce and asked if they could tell us where
> these fall were. Turns out that the falls are unmarked, but with
> their area topography map we drove the 25 miles back and were able to
> find the falls, find a place to park off the Trans Canadian
> Highway.....climb over some boulders up a steep "rough foot path" and
> find the box.....we were so excited and proud of ourselves! Then we
> opened the box and found a store bought teacher's stamp that
> said "follow directions". Yes, I enjoyed the hunt. Yes, the falls
> were absolutely gorgeous and we never would have seen them if we
> hadn't been determined to find that box. But it sure would have
> been "icing on the cake" to end up with a unique hand-carved stamp.
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

alterabook,

that is how I feel too.... I really don't mind a store stamp to the extreme,
but when I open the box and it's a plain old store stamp my heart falls.
And especially after a difficult hunt, I like the enjoyment of a hand carved
stamp at the end of it.

RIFamily



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.13.21/1010 - Release Date: 9/15/2007
7:54 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please keep in mind not everyone has the time, patience, or minimum amount of skill to hand carve a stamp. Besides, if you never ever found a similar stamp for your logbook, wouldn't it be just as original?

Not to mention a store stamp is easily replenishable. You can't tell me you wouldn't be upset if your LB disappeared with a stamp you spent several hours carving.

Finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself. I, for one, have very little patience for stamp carving. My stamp is very simplistic, and it took maybe less than two hours to carve, but that's good enough for me. I'd go nuts if I tried doing something intricate.

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sounds like there are pros and cons for both carved and store-bought
stamps. I'm of ilk that even a crappily carved stamp is better than a
store-bought one. It is only my opinion, though. I always feel
disappointment in finding a store-bought stamp in a box. I really
enjoy people's artistic efforts and creativity.

I think East Coasters and those in Dartmoor may feel differently (some
folks have stamps custom-made), maybe even some West Coasters feel that
way, too. And not everyone is artistic and just because they aren't or
are not into carving they shouldn't feel that they can't place a store-
bought stamp and get involved. This sport means different things to
different people.

I just had to give my two cents worth because I really, really love
finding hand-carved stamps.

Best regards,

Amanda Briles
The Paisley Orca

Yeah one like that would suck, kinds like they knew you couldn't find it and were like making fun, but the "follow directions" actually was kind of a cute idea too! There are however many awesome store bought ones!!

alterabook wrote: I didn't really identify at all with the disappointment of finding a
store bought stamp in a LB---untill I found one! This was a hard box
to find---up in British Columbia. We were just driving through, on
our way back to the states after taking our dd to college in Alberta.
We tried our best to follow the clues to find a certain waterfall,
but just couldn't find it. So....we drove 25 miles to the next town,
went to the Chamber of Commerce and asked if they could tell us where
these fall were. Turns out that the falls are unmarked, but with
their area topography map we drove the 25 miles back and were able to
find the falls, find a place to park off the Trans Canadian
Highway.....climb over some boulders up a steep "rough foot path" and
find the box.....we were so excited and proud of ourselves! Then we
opened the box and found a store bought teacher's stamp that
said "follow directions". Yes, I enjoyed the hunt. Yes, the falls
were absolutely gorgeous and we never would have seen them if we
hadn't been determined to find that box. But it sure would have
been "icing on the cake" to end up with a unique hand-carved stamp.






Nicki Sommer TACTM Angel #2124
dnsom5945@yahoo.com
Save up to 50% using unmounted
stamps by The Angel CompanyTM
Visit my website to learn more.
http://www.freewebs.com/nickitacangel2124/
http://tyandmaddismom.blogspot.com/
For all your Power Sports needs:
http://www.ddpowersportsltd.com/













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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good point. Store bought is better than a stolen one or none at all,
but a carved stamp trumps them all! And I know this will get someone's
nose bent out of joint, but I'd rather find nothing at all than a
geocache where the letterbox is supposed to be. It makes me jump to
bad conclusions. You'd think the two sports could coincide
harmoniously, but a lot of times when there is a geocache where a
letterbox is the stamp is taken or else the letterbox is totally gone.
I just want to find the letterbox where it's supposed to be with a
stamp in it.

Best regards,

Amanda Briles
The Paisley Orca

What is a geocache?

paisleyorca wrote: Good point. Store bought is better than a stolen one or none at all,
but a carved stamp trumps them all! And I know this will get someone's
nose bent out of joint, but I'd rather find nothing at all than a
geocache where the letterbox is supposed to be. It makes me jump to
bad conclusions. You'd think the two sports could coincide
harmoniously, but a lot of times when there is a geocache where a
letterbox is the stamp is taken or else the letterbox is totally gone.
I just want to find the letterbox where it's supposed to be with a
stamp in it.

Best regards,

Amanda Briles
The Paisley Orca






"If we ever forget that we are a Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."

- Ronald Reagan


---------------------------------
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Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are people more disappointed to find no stamp (e.g., because it
was stolen), or a store bought one?

< was stolen), or a store bought one?>>

Well, I tend to seek out boxes marked as hand-carved, so I would be quite distressed to find a store-bought stamp in a box that claimed to be otherwise! :) :) But, my experience to date ... a couple times the box wasn't marked one way or the other ... finding a store-bought stamp makes me feel "what was the point, anyway?" Not finding a box makes me feel frustrated or sad (depending on if I think it's my failure to find, or a box gone missing).

Here's the difference though. If I'm disappointed because I couldn't find a box, I can contact previous finders and the planter, and beg for a clue or ask for clarification. If I'm disappointed because it looks like a box has gone missing, I can let the planter know and hope that they will one day replace it. Either way, I can imagine a future in which I do find the box!

But, if I'm disappointed because a stamp was store-bought .... there's really no recourse. It would be rude to write the planter and say, "Oh, poor me. Let me know if you carve a stamp someday." So, I feel much more permanently disappointed by store-bought stamps. Especially unadvertised ones.

Rachel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Randy Hall
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 2:47 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] store bought stamps........



Are people more disappointed to find no stamp (e.g., because it
was stolen), or a store bought one?

====================================

Personally, I'm more disappointed to find a store-bought stamp. If I know
a box has a store-bought stamp, it drops to the bottom of my to-find list
and, realistically, there's only a million to one chance that I'll bother to
have the time to go looking for it. I have other interests. Letterboxing
is near the top of my list of interests IF it means looking for a unique
stamp. If it's a store-bought stamp, I have other things I'd rather do than
letterbox. If there were only store-bought stamps, I wouldn't be a
letterboxer.

However........

If a stamp turns up missing, there's always the chance the stamp will be
replaced and I can go looking for it again later.

In other words, both ways I consider that I've come up a loser, but with the
missing stamp, there's still a chance.

Now the worst of both worlds would be if I went looking for the stamp and it
was missing and then replaced, so I go looking for it all over again
and..........it's a store-bought stamp! :-) Then I would hope that someone
would wake me up from the baaaad dream. That would almost be worse than the
Grinch stealing Christmas.

~~ Mosey ~~

When I find a box and open it to find a store-bought stamp, my heart
sinks a teeny-weeny little bit. I don't flip out or anything, but
there it is - I really like the simple, first-try attempts at
handcarving _and_ the intricate marvels created by people much more
skilled than myself. When I find a box with a missing/stolen stamp,
my feelings go more outward - I feel bad for the placer/carver, not
for myself. I feel the loss of the art, the effort..... if that makes
sense......

Not that store-bought stamps are going to keep me from boxing.... :-D


On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:46 PM, Randy Hall wrote:

>
> Are people more disappointed to find no stamp (e.g., because it
> was stolen), or a store bought one?

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of tony pecchia
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 12:40 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


Please keep in mind not everyone has the time, patience, or minimum amount
of skill to hand carve a stamp. Besides, if you never ever found a similar
stamp for your logbook, wouldn't it be just as original?

Not to mention a store stamp is easily replenishable. You can't tell me you
wouldn't be upset if your LB disappeared with a stamp you spent several
hours carving.

Finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself. I, for one,
have very little patience for stamp carving. My stamp is very simplistic,
and it took maybe less than two hours to carve, but that's good enough for
me. I'd go nuts if I tried doing something intricate.

Tony

==========================

If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the time,
patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique stamp or
do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them make a
stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a matter of
priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you then
have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with someone
who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and make
it a team effort.)

The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea is
sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure, you
could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve ball
and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve ball and
then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.

Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears. There's a
good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my first
and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself on
the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee, mum's gone
off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his masterpieces
destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time around.
Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.

Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself. Done
right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no Wilke
button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job *half*
well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything less
should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those cheap
prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in the
house.

~~ Mosey ~~

A whole bunch of new boxes were planted in my vacinity
recently, all by newboxers, and all store-bought
stamps. I'm glad to see some new planters, but I
stopped seeking out these planters' boxes. It really
does put a damper on the boxing experience for me.
I'd rather not find anything for a while until I can
look elsewhere.

Mommo


--- Pamela Smith wrote:

> When I find a box and open it to find a store-bought
> stamp, my heart
> sinks a teeny-weeny little bit. I don't flip out or
> anything, but
> there it is - I really like the simple, first-try
> attempts at
> handcarving _and_ the intricate marvels created by
> people much more
> skilled than myself. When I find a box with a
> missing/stolen stamp,
> my feelings go more outward - I feel bad for the
> placer/carver, not
> for myself. I feel the loss of the art, the
> effort..... if that makes
> sense......
>
> Not that store-bought stamps are going to keep me
> from boxing.... :-D
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:46 PM, Randy Hall wrote:
>
> >
> > Are people more disappointed to find no stamp
> (e.g., because it
> > was stolen), or a store bought one?
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!
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I don't have a problem with store bought stamps if they match the
theme or location of the box. If its hidden at a lighthouse and its a
store bought stamp of a lighthouse, I'm totally fine with it.

I, myself, don't like "park and stamps". I prefer to have a little
adventure of sorts or a challenging set of clues. (note that's not
the same thing as bad clues).

So clues that say "Get out of your car and behind the entrace sign is
the box" annoys me more than a store bought stamp. If the planter has
to choose where to allot their mental energy I'd rather the planter
put it in the clues as opposed to carving the stamp.

But of course I've never not done a "park and stamp"... I mean I want
to increase my find count don't I?

They are similar IMHO

* Geocache - a plastic container hidden for people to find. Inside are: a logbook and trinkets. You take a trinket, leave a trinket (or don't trade, it's optional) and sign the log to confirm you were there.
* Letterbox - a plastic container hidden for people to find. Inside are: a logbook and a stamp. You take a stamp image and leave a stamp image.

How do you find them...
* Geocache - by latitude/longitude coordinates (e.g. N39 00.150 W121 25.860) and when you get close, by hints. Geocachers carry a GPS (Global Positioning System) receiver that guides them to the location.
* Letterbox - by written directions, often by compass directions and paces (e.g. 20 paces NE 30degrees).

Where are they listed...
* Geocaches - http://www.geocaching.com
* Letterboxes - http://www.letterboxing.org and http://www.atlasquest.com

BTW I am a letterboxer and geocacher, equally. I have planted over 30 letterboxes that I post on all 3 sites. On my geocache pages I go into detail about what a letterbox is and how the letterbox's stamp is not traded out. I also put information in the box - short and in large type. Go here to see the note I leave in my letterboxes - http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lone-r/images/make_a_letterbox/box-note-do-not-trade-large.gif
I also write on the back of the stamp with a sharpie marker - Do not trade. Leave in the box.

The only time I had a stamp traded out was when I *didn't* leave a note in the box and I *didn't* write a message on the back of the stamp. Lucky for me the geocacher posted a "found" message on the online logs and stated that he had traded out the stamp. I contacted him and he drove back and returned the stamp to me personally. My experience is that geocaching and letterboxing do and can work together harmoniously. Education and cooperation are important factors.


Debra Farrell wrote: What is a geocache?

paisleyorca wrote: Good point. Store bought is better than a stolen one or none at all,
but a carved stamp trumps them all! And I know this will get someone's
nose bent out of joint, but I'd rather find nothing at all than a
geocache where the letterbox is supposed to be. It makes me jump to
bad conclusions. You'd think the two sports could coincide
harmoniously, but a lot of times when there is a geocache where a
letterbox is the stamp is taken or else the letterbox is totally gone.
I just want to find the letterbox where it's supposed to be with a
stamp in it.

Best regards,

Amanda Briles
The Paisley Orca

"If we ever forget that we are a Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."

- Ronald Reagan

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you so much for the answer.

R wrote: They are similar IMHO

* Geocache - a plastic container hidden for people to find. Inside are: a logbook and trinkets. You take a trinket, leave a trinket (or don't trade, it's optional) and sign the log to confirm you were there.
* Letterbox - a plastic container hidden for people to find. Inside are: a logbook and a stamp. You take a stamp image and leave a stamp image.

How do you find them...
* Geocache - by latitude/longitude coordinates (e.g. N39 00.150 W121 25.860) and when you get close, by hints. Geocachers carry a GPS (Global Positioning System) receiver that guides them to the location.
* Letterbox - by written directions, often by compass directions and paces (e.g. 20 paces NE 30degrees).

Where are they listed...
* Geocaches - http://www.geocaching.com
* Letterboxes - http://www.letterboxing.org and http://www.atlasquest.com

BTW I am a letterboxer and geocacher, equally. I have planted over 30 letterboxes that I post on all 3 sites. On my geocache pages I go into detail about what a letterbox is and how the letterbox's stamp is not traded out. I also put information in the box - short and in large type. Go here to see the note I leave in my letterboxes - http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lone-r/images/make_a_letterbox/box-note-do-not-trade-large.gif
I also write on the back of the stamp with a sharpie marker - Do not trade. Leave in the box.

The only time I had a stamp traded out was when I *didn't* leave a note in the box and I *didn't* write a message on the back of the stamp. Lucky for me the geocacher posted a "found" message on the online logs and stated that he had traded out the stamp. I contacted him and he drove back and returned the stamp to me personally. My experience is that geocaching and letterboxing do and can work together harmoniously. Education and cooperation are important factors.

Debra Farrell wrote: What is a geocache?

paisleyorca wrote: Good point. Store bought is better than a stolen one or none at all,
but a carved stamp trumps them all! And I know this will get someone's
nose bent out of joint, but I'd rather find nothing at all than a
geocache where the letterbox is supposed to be. It makes me jump to
bad conclusions. You'd think the two sports could coincide
harmoniously, but a lot of times when there is a geocache where a
letterbox is the stamp is taken or else the letterbox is totally gone.
I just want to find the letterbox where it's supposed to be with a
stamp in it.

Best regards,

Amanda Briles
The Paisley Orca

"If we ever forget that we are a Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."

- Ronald Reagan

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






"If we ever forget that we are a Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."

- Ronald Reagan


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The reason that I care about a unique stamp is because that's why I
letterbox. 99.9% of the boxes in this area are either in locations that
aren't mind-blowing whatso*ever* or, if they're in a great location, it's a
place I've probably been to anyway and will be to again, it's not the
letterbox that draws me. There are only a couple of boxes I've ever found
in my own area that I could honestly say that "it's the hike that counts."
I work outdoors all day plus we go hiking/camping/rock climbing all the
time. And I ain't no spring chicken. So I've been all over pretty much all
of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Indiana. I can rarely afford to take any
"really spectacular" vacations. There's only one spectacular location in
northeastern IL that I'd like to plant a box at but the authorities-that-be
won't give folks the location. It's a 60 foot natural waterfall that's
supposed to be pretty cool. But I'll find it. I'm lookin' for it. And
when I find it, there will be a box planted there............with a unique
stamp.

Now if there are boxes in beautiful mountains someplace (like Michel
LaBranch's boxes in eastern Tennessee) THEN it could be all about the hike
to me. Maybe. Sorta. :-) I'd still want unique stamps but I'd be less
disappointed because the hike in some of those mountains would be terrific
and it's not like I can afford the gas to go down there very often. Nah, I
take that back. I still want unique stamps. Anything less just gives me
the idea that we're dumbin' it down, as Ancient would say. I'm just going
to hate to see the day when most of the boxes out there are a trek from one
Hobby Lobby to the next Hobby Lobby. Why not just plant boxes right in the
Hobby Lobby stores and be done with it? The clues could lead a person on a
walk around the store to end up at the stamp aisle, and then say "Pick a
stamp. Any stamp." :-)

About your question tho --

I'm rarely going to know if the person did their best work possible or if
they intentionally made a crappy stamp. This list was the first I had heard
of anyone intentionally not bothering to do their best because the stamp
might turn up missing and they'd be less disappointed if they'd
intentionally made a B stamp rather than an A stamp. I've just always
assumed folks did their best and that some folks' best is better than other
folks' best. I personally wouldn't dream of putting less effort into it
because it might end up lost or stolen. I'd just make the clues harder the
next time around. So yeah, color me naive on that subject -- I never
figured. And I think I'd like to go on dreaming that, for the most part,
folks do their best.

Now......if a carving says "I found really really really really impossible
box X", that would be the most perfectly awesome stamp in the world to me
because I'm absolutely awful awful awful awful at carving letters. So
anyone that could carve that many letters into some PZKut or some
Mastercarve for a stamp -- I'd think that was certainly NO crappy stamp.
I'd think WOW, way to go! Great stamp! :-)

I totally understand your idea about stamps and mystery boxes. A lot of my
stamps are related to the place but not in such a way as to make the place
identifiable. I really would like to be able to carve the name of each
place as part of the stamp, even if my letters aren't the best, but yeah,
that could definitely give things away if people were looking at each
other's journals.

~~ Mosey ~~



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Randy Hall
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:37 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] store bought stamps........



> In other words, both ways I consider that I've come up a loser,
> but with the missing stamp, there's still a chance.

It seems then, that you could go looking for a box with a
store-bought stamp, and hope it comes up missing. That would be
a net improvement :)

I do find this topic fascinating, as I don't care even if the box
is there (and it baffles me that people whine about missing boxes,
store bought stamps, need assurances that the boxes are there, etc.).
To each their own, and likewise I imagine it baffles others when
I blow them off when they ask these things of me.

But, I have another question. It has been stated (and reiterated)
that people prefer crappy hand-carved stamps to store bought ones,
no matter how artistic the store bought one is. To me, this isn't
logical, but grant that logic need not play any role in it. (I
agree, BTW, I don't care for store bought stamps either).

My question is: How do people feel about hand-carved stamps that
make no attempt to be artistic. That is, just represent proof
that they found the box. Like some carving that says: "I found
really really really really impossible box X"?

I'll admit that my reluctance to carve a stamp relating to the
place stems from the fact that I prefer to create clues to mystery
boxes, and a stamp image that represents the place of a mystery
box is an information leak.

Just curious.

Cheers
Randy



Yahoo! Groups Links

>
>* Geocache - by latitude/longitude coordinates
>(e.g. N39 00.150 W121 25.860) and when you get
>close, by hints. Geocachers carry a GPS (Global
>Positioning System) receiver that guides them to the location.

Hey, R,,,

Those Lat/Long numbers seem to be just southeast
of Yuba City, just off of highway 65, near the
little community of Wheatland,,, which is a
little above Sacremento,,, am I close??? I have
no GPS, but ran the lat/long on Google Maps, and
that's what came up. Was thinking this might be
a poor man's way of geocacheing. :-) At least
until one can afford a GPS, of which I would
imagine there's quite a number to choose from.

Gary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> In other words, both ways I consider that I've come up a loser,
> but with the missing stamp, there's still a chance.

It seems then, that you could go looking for a box with a
store-bought stamp, and hope it comes up missing. That would be
a net improvement :)

I do find this topic fascinating, as I don't care even if the box
is there (and it baffles me that people whine about missing boxes,
store bought stamps, need assurances that the boxes are there, etc.).
To each their own, and likewise I imagine it baffles others when
I blow them off when they ask these things of me.

But, I have another question. It has been stated (and reiterated)
that people prefer crappy hand-carved stamps to store bought ones,
no matter how artistic the store bought one is. To me, this isn't
logical, but grant that logic need not play any role in it. (I
agree, BTW, I don't care for store bought stamps either).

My question is: How do people feel about hand-carved stamps that
make no attempt to be artistic. That is, just represent proof
that they found the box. Like some carving that says: "I found
really really really really impossible box X"?

I'll admit that my reluctance to carve a stamp relating to the
place stems from the fact that I prefer to create clues to mystery
boxes, and a stamp image that represents the place of a mystery
box is an information leak.

Just curious.

Cheers
Randy

Wow Mosey, I mean wow. Heaven forbid the placer of a box has some disability that would keep them from carving a stamp and maybe they don't have your connection or money to have someone else or a company make their stamp for them. In my not so humble opinion that is a really high horsed position you have there.

My first box was DARE I say a store bought stamp. It was store bought because *I* liked the stamp and felt it was appropriate for the location. DARE I say I helped my fiancee place her letterbox with a NO LONGER IN PRINT store bought stamp or that she uses another NO LONGER IN PRINT store bought stamp for her regular stamp.

Heaven forbid someone uses a poochie stamp from the 80's to place in their box instead of a hand carved stamp. You know sometimes, just sometimes a store bought stamp can be just as good or better than a carved stamp because it still can be a rare find.

Lucky there are thousands of DIFFERENT letterboxes to chose from and thankfully not all the placer go by "I'm better than you elitist rules".

Barrudaki- Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people display when it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that don't always rely on the stamp.




>
> If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the time,
> patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique stamp or
> do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them make a
> stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a matter of
> priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you then
> have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with someone
> who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and make
> it a team effort.)
>
> The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea is
> sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure, you
> could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve ball
> and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve ball and
> then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
> ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.
>
> Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears. There's a
> good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my first
> and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself on
> the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
> strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee, mum's gone
> off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
> Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his masterpieces
> destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
> think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time around.
> Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.
>
> Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself. Done
> right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no Wilke
> button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job *half*
> well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything less
> should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those cheap
> prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in the
> house.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people display when
it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying
letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that don't always
rely on the stamp."
***************************

At the risk of sending this conversation over the edge to a full-fledged
flame war, I would like to gently point out that pointing fingers and
calling people elitist is not a way to foster conversation.

I would like to suggest looking at the discussion from a little different
angle - the folks who have been around awhile have learned the traditions
and "old ways" to play the game. They often know the logic behind the "why
nots" from a personal point of view. New folks come in and have a great
deal of enthusiasm and literally ooze with new ideas. I think both groups
of people are great!

However, those who haven't been around forever and a day may need to realize
that the old-timers - Silverbacks - have seen quite a few rounds of new
folks who have come in with grand ideas and some of those ideas have
degraded the hobby. So if they just sit back and let the new folks run all
over and do whatever they want to do without speaking up, the risk is that
the hobby becomes little more than collecting belly button lint.

Perhaps what you see as elitism is actually an effort to keep the standards
high. I think precious few folks on here would say that store-boughts are
NEVER okay or drive-by boxes are ALWAYS bad boxes, but by speaking out about
why they don't like those, Silverbacks are trying to prevent the standards
from being lowered across the board.

A little tolerance all the way around would go a long way, but new folks -
respect those who have been at it for several years. Silverbacks - remember
you were new once too and didn't want to be discouraged on every turn!

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There's nothing elitist about it. Why, when someone's opinion doesn't match
someone else's opinion, is the first person's opinion suddenly elitist?
It's my opinion, based on what I like about letterboxing. And for what it's
worth, stamps can be very cheap to have a company make. nwstamps.com can
often make them up for less than they can be bought at Hobby Lobby if a
person emails them their drawing.

Just because a stamp is "no longer in print" (I'm not sure how a stamp can
be "in print" anyway but I'll use that phrase since you did), doesn't mean
there aren't an awfully lot of 'em out there. But that doesn't matter. It
might be no longer "in print" but I probably have one of 'em. It's still not
a unique stamp. It was mass produced at some point by someone who had
nothing to do with letterboxing. I don't care to find those kinds of
stamps. That's my opinion. Your mileage may certainly vary. Heck, if
it's "a poochie stamp from the 80s", I probably have it already.

If I had a disability that kept me from carving a stamp by myself, I would,
as I suggested in my post, find someone interested in collaborating with me
in making boxes. That's assuming that my disability allowed me to plant
letterboxes at all. There do happen to be folks around that like the
carving aspect but don't like the planting part of it. But I also don't
really think I'd mind cuttin' a person like that some slack. Unfortunately,
those don't exactly seem to be the folks placing the store-bought stamps for
the most part.

Right now there are plenty of different styles of boxing around that folks
can pick and choose what they like. But the way it's been headed, I'm not
all that sure that's going to last. We don't have "thousands" of boxes in
this neck of the woods, and many many more new folks are going the
store-bought route 'round here. I can foresee that ending up being
considered the "norm". And that's OK -- I just won't be boxing anymore
then. I neither live to box nor box to live. :-)

If you notice, on this list, I rarely give an opinion unless an opinion is
requested in a post. But if someone is going to ask a question and wants
opinions, then sorry, yes, I feel I have a right to give my opinion. I
guess you'd just rather hear the opinions from the folks who love
store-bought stamps. Oh well. If you don't like it, hit that good ol'
delete button when you see my email addy pop up. Unless ya do that, you'll
be listening to my opinion when a request for opinions pops up. Sorry 'bout
that. Nah.........really I'm not.

~~ Mosey ~~


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:02 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


Wow Mosey, I mean wow. Heaven forbid the placer of a box has some disability
that would keep them from carving a stamp and maybe they don't have your
connection or money to have someone else or a company make their stamp for
them. In my not so humble opinion that is a really high horsed position you
have there.

My first box was DARE I say a store bought stamp. It was store bought
because *I* liked the stamp and felt it was appropriate for the location.
DARE I say I helped my fiancee place her letterbox with a NO LONGER IN PRINT
store bought stamp or that she uses another NO LONGER IN PRINT store bought
stamp for her regular stamp.

Heaven forbid someone uses a poochie stamp from the 80's to place in their
box instead of a hand carved stamp. You know sometimes, just sometimes a
store bought stamp can be just as good or better than a carved stamp because
it still can be a rare find.

Lucky there are thousands of DIFFERENT letterboxes to chose from and
thankfully not all the placer go by "I'm better than you elitist rules".

Barrudaki- Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people
display when it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of
varying letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
don't always rely on the stamp.




>
> If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the time,
> patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique stamp
or
> do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them make a
> stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a matter
of
> priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you
then
> have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with someone
> who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and
make
> it a team effort.)
>
> The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea is
> sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure, you
> could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve
ball
> and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve ball
and
> then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
> ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.
>
> Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears. There's
a
> good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my first
> and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself
on
> the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
> strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee, mum's
gone
> off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
> Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his
masterpieces
> destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
> think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time
around.
> Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.
>
> Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself. Done
> right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no
Wilke
> button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job
*half*
> well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything
less
> should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those cheap
> prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in the
> house.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "cliffordholm"
wrote:
>
Store bought or hand carved does not really make a difference for us.
However we do love the "park and stamp" for when we have the young
ones with us. They are not up to the mile hikes but do really well
with the short "park and stamp" we consider this training for our
future letter boxers. Don't get me wrong when the kids are else where
we do love a well hidden box.

Amy
Monkey Mama's
> I don't have a problem with store bought stamps if they match the
> theme or location of the box. If its hidden at a lighthouse and its a
> store bought stamp of a lighthouse, I'm totally fine with it.
>
> I, myself, don't like "park and stamps". I prefer to have a little
> adventure of sorts or a challenging set of clues. (note that's not
> the same thing as bad clues).
>
> So clues that say "Get out of your car and behind the entrace sign is
> the box" annoys me more than a store bought stamp. If the planter has
> to choose where to allot their mental energy I'd rather the planter
> put it in the clues as opposed to carving the stamp.
>
> But of course I've never not done a "park and stamp"... I mean I want
> to increase my find count don't I?
>

Well said Lucy!!! (My mom's cat is named Lucy!! )

Barefoot Lucy wrote: "Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people display when
it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying
letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that don't always
rely on the stamp."
***************************

At the risk of sending this conversation over the edge to a full-fledged
flame war, I would like to gently point out that pointing fingers and
calling people elitist is not a way to foster conversation.

I would like to suggest looking at the discussion from a little different
angle - the folks who have been around awhile have learned the traditions
and "old ways" to play the game. They often know the logic behind the "why
nots" from a personal point of view. New folks come in and have a great
deal of enthusiasm and literally ooze with new ideas. I think both groups
of people are great!

However, those who haven't been around forever and a day may need to realize
that the old-timers - Silverbacks - have seen quite a few rounds of new
folks who have come in with grand ideas and some of those ideas have
degraded the hobby. So if they just sit back and let the new folks run all
over and do whatever they want to do without speaking up, the risk is that
the hobby becomes little more than collecting belly button lint.

Perhaps what you see as elitism is actually an effort to keep the standards
high. I think precious few folks on here would say that store-boughts are
NEVER okay or drive-by boxes are ALWAYS bad boxes, but by speaking out about
why they don't like those, Silverbacks are trying to prevent the standards
from being lowered across the board.

A little tolerance all the way around would go a long way, but new folks -
respect those who have been at it for several years. Silverbacks - remember
you were new once too and didn't want to be discouraged on every turn!

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Nicki Sommer TACTM Angel #2124
dnsom5945@yahoo.com
Save up to 50% using unmounted
stamps by The Angel CompanyTM
Visit my website to learn more.
http://www.freewebs.com/nickitacangel2124/
http://tyandmaddismom.blogspot.com/
For all your Power Sports needs:
http://www.ddpowersportsltd.com/













---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "alterabook"
wrote:
>
> We tried our best to follow the clues to find a certain waterfall,
> but just couldn't find it. So...
> Yes, I enjoyed the hunt. Yes, the falls
> were absolutely gorgeous and we never would have seen them if we
> hadn't been determined to find that box.

Life is a journey, not a destination. Do not keep hands and feet
inside the ride, DO NOT wait for the ride to stop, and enjoy the ride
while it lasts 'cuz it's over all too soon...

Your milage may vary,
Connfederate (off his stump now)

Hello Barefoot Lucy,

When someone uses the phrase "In my never humble opinion" which Mosey used, it sounds elitist. Like their opinion is the "rule". Just because someone is considered a silverback or old-timer on the boards doesn't mean they can push the newbies around. Tony was voicing an opinion and Mosey came back with a flamed response about if someone has the time to go letterboxing then they have the time and resources to get a hold of a hand carved stamp.

I apologize if my disagreeing came off as not so humble as Mosey's post, I really don't expect anyone to forgive me because well you know I'm a newbie and not a silverback who knows it all.

Barrudaki- Who thinks just because someone has been around doesn't mean they have the right to boss people around.


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Barefoot Lucy"
> "Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people display when
> it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying
> letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that don't always
> rely on the stamp."
> ***************************
>
> At the risk of sending this conversation over the edge to a full-fledged
> flame war, I would like to gently point out that pointing fingers and
> calling people elitist is not a way to foster conversation.
>
> I would like to suggest looking at the discussion from a little different
> angle - the folks who have been around awhile have learned the traditions
> and "old ways" to play the game. They often know the logic behind the "why
> nots" from a personal point of view. New folks come in and have a great
> deal of enthusiasm and literally ooze with new ideas. I think both groups
> of people are great!
>
> However, those who haven't been around forever and a day may need to realize
> that the old-timers - Silverbacks - have seen quite a few rounds of new
> folks who have come in with grand ideas and some of those ideas have
> degraded the hobby. So if they just sit back and let the new folks run all
> over and do whatever they want to do without speaking up, the risk is that
> the hobby becomes little more than collecting belly button lint.
>
> Perhaps what you see as elitism is actually an effort to keep the standards
> high. I think precious few folks on here would say that store-boughts are
> NEVER okay or drive-by boxes are ALWAYS bad boxes, but by speaking out about
> why they don't like those, Silverbacks are trying to prevent the standards
> from being lowered across the board.
>
> A little tolerance all the way around would go a long way, but new folks -
> respect those who have been at it for several years. Silverbacks - remember
> you were new once too and didn't want to be discouraged on every turn!
>
> --
> Barefoot Lucy
> "It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Someone said "if you have the time to letterbox, you have the time to
carve." I'll gladly allow them to follow me around for a couple of
days. Between work (two jobs), family, church, and voluntering I'm
lucky to even think about letterboxing. I too enjoy the hand carved
boxes, I also enjoy the store bought ones. In my world it's about
being with my family away from the television and other stupid
distractions we have allowed to creep into our home and life.

Just my newbie two cents worth. Truely it seems like a petty thing to
me. Go, have fun, get lost, create some memories.....

I'm going back to my box now.

Daniel T

I've enjoyed reading all the posts, sitting back & learning from them all.

It appears that letterboxing means something a little different to everyone, and really,
it's very individual.

Thanks for sharing all of the opinions and ideas.

Daniel wrote:
Someone said "if you have the time to letterbox, you have the time to
carve." I'll gladly allow them to follow me around for a couple of
days. Between work (two jobs), family, church, and voluntering I'm
lucky to even think about letterboxing. I too enjoy the hand carved
boxes, I also enjoy the store bought ones. In my world it's about
being with my family away from the television and other stupid
distractions we have allowed to creep into our home and life.

Just my newbie two cents worth. Truely it seems like a petty thing to
me. Go, have fun, get lost, create some memories.....

I'm going back to my box now.

Daniel T






"If we ever forget that we are a Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."

- Ronald Reagan


---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't have a problem with a different opinion, but if you are going to act like your opinion is the word of the allmighty then don't expect your "never so humble opinion" to really be heard.

Your never so humble opinion from your original post didn't leave room for some with disability (funny how your response does now), nor does it leave room for someone who maybe doesn't have the money or passion to spend on a company to make their stamp. Your never so humble opinion also does not leave room for someone who is just starting out and may not have your connections to get someone to carve them a stamp. Your never so humble opinion has been noted and I responded in a not so humble way to it. If you don't like how I responded then maybe you should look closer at how you boast your never humble opinion.

There are several reasons why someone may decide to use a store bought stamp despite your never so humble opinion. You obviously have your way about how things should be and others have their ways. I was and still am looking forward to other people's opinions about store bought stamps however, post like yours will not help to swade my opinion about certain types of stamps. Those type of elitist "never so humble" opinions post only tells me the person behind it is too bent on voicing "their way" and is too close minded to see how other ways may work.

You can respond how you want I'll no longer be responding to this part of the thread. I've said my piece

-Barrudaki




-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "xxxxxxxx"
> There's nothing elitist about it. Why, when someone's opinion doesn't match
> someone else's opinion, is the first person's opinion suddenly elitist?
> It's my opinion, based on what I like about letterboxing. And for what it's
> worth, stamps can be very cheap to have a company make. nwstamps.com can
> often make them up for less than they can be bought at Hobby Lobby if a
> person emails them their drawing.
>
> Just because a stamp is "no longer in print" (I'm not sure how a stamp can
> be "in print" anyway but I'll use that phrase since you did), doesn't mean
> there aren't an awfully lot of 'em out there. But that doesn't matter. It
> might be no longer "in print" but I probably have one of 'em. It's still not
> a unique stamp. It was mass produced at some point by someone who had
> nothing to do with letterboxing. I don't care to find those kinds of
> stamps. That's my opinion. Your mileage may certainly vary. Heck, if
> it's "a poochie stamp from the 80s", I probably have it already.
>
> If I had a disability that kept me from carving a stamp by myself, I would,
> as I suggested in my post, find someone interested in collaborating with me
> in making boxes. That's assuming that my disability allowed me to plant
> letterboxes at all. There do happen to be folks around that like the
> carving aspect but don't like the planting part of it. But I also don't
> really think I'd mind cuttin' a person like that some slack. Unfortunately,
> those don't exactly seem to be the folks placing the store-bought stamps for
> the most part.
>
> Right now there are plenty of different styles of boxing around that folks
> can pick and choose what they like. But the way it's been headed, I'm not
> all that sure that's going to last. We don't have "thousands" of boxes in
> this neck of the woods, and many many more new folks are going the
> store-bought route 'round here. I can foresee that ending up being
> considered the "norm". And that's OK -- I just won't be boxing anymore
> then. I neither live to box nor box to live. :-)
>
> If you notice, on this list, I rarely give an opinion unless an opinion is
> requested in a post. But if someone is going to ask a question and wants
> opinions, then sorry, yes, I feel I have a right to give my opinion. I
> guess you'd just rather hear the opinions from the folks who love
> store-bought stamps. Oh well. If you don't like it, hit that good ol'
> delete button when you see my email addy pop up. Unless ya do that, you'll
> be listening to my opinion when a request for opinions pops up. Sorry 'bout
> that. Nah.........really I'm not.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:02 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
>
>
> Wow Mosey, I mean wow. Heaven forbid the placer of a box has some disability
> that would keep them from carving a stamp and maybe they don't have your
> connection or money to have someone else or a company make their stamp for
> them. In my not so humble opinion that is a really high horsed position you
> have there.
>
> My first box was DARE I say a store bought stamp. It was store bought
> because *I* liked the stamp and felt it was appropriate for the location.
> DARE I say I helped my fiancee place her letterbox with a NO LONGER IN PRINT
> store bought stamp or that she uses another NO LONGER IN PRINT store bought
> stamp for her regular stamp.
>
> Heaven forbid someone uses a poochie stamp from the 80's to place in their
> box instead of a hand carved stamp. You know sometimes, just sometimes a
> store bought stamp can be just as good or better than a carved stamp because
> it still can be a rare find.
>
> Lucky there are thousands of DIFFERENT letterboxes to chose from and
> thankfully not all the placer go by "I'm better than you elitist rules".
>
> Barrudaki- Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people
> display when it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of
> varying letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
> don't always rely on the stamp.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the time,
> > patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique stamp
> or
> > do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them make a
> > stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a matter
> of
> > priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you
> then
> > have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with someone
> > who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and
> make
> > it a team effort.)
> >
> > The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea is
> > sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure, you
> > could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve
> ball
> > and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve ball
> and
> > then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
> > ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.
> >
> > Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears. There's
> a
> > good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my first
> > and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself
> on
> > the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
> > strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee, mum's
> gone
> > off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
> > Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his
> masterpieces
> > destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
> > think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time
> around.
> > Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.
> >
> > Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself. Done
> > right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no
> Wilke
> > button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job
> *half*
> > well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything
> less
> > should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those cheap
> > prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in the
> > house.
> >
> > ~~ Mosey ~~
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I must have missed the alleged "elitism", but the old-timers
were on top of the warnings about the need for camo-knit-asbestos
underwear, weren't they?

> At the risk of sending this conversation over the edge to a full-fledged
> flame war,

Hey, we just want to make Xeen's welcome to the list special, don't
we :)

(oh, and to the newbies, don't mind me. My computer isn't wired for
tone, but I do enjoy being pretentious and using words I don't
understand. I'm almost always laughing or using subtle irony when
posting or reading the list, you'll get used to it). If you can't
deal with my posts, there is no way you want to deal with my clues ...

Now, into my bunker :)

Cheers
Randy
who was a newbie in the absence of old-timers; look what I missed ...

Interesting question.

I find that my tolerance for non-artistic hand carved stamps very
much related to the clues. For instance, if I finally figure out
one of your mystery boxes or say a leger de maine box, and find the
actual box, I almost don't care what the stamp looks like--the
reward for me is the satisfaction of finding that box! If the stamp
is good, woo hoo a bonus. Either way, I'm just doing the Snoopy
dance.

If, however, the clues are so darned simple to the point of driveby,
I expect at least an effort to carve a stamp or make a creative
logbook, or creative outside box. My expectations of the
craftsmanship aren't too high, however, because I myself am not a
gifted carver, but at least give it a college try.

And then too, if the box is by a newbie, I appreciate anything I get
from that box, because I can empathize with how nerve wracking
putting your first boxes together can be.

The only real disappointment for me would be a box with easy clues,
a store bought stamp, a lined notebook placed by someone who's been
boxing for a while.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
> My question is: How do people feel about hand-carved stamps that
> make no attempt to be artistic. That is, just represent proof
> that they found the box. Like some carving that says: "I found
> really really really really impossible box X"?
>
> I'll admit that my reluctance to carve a stamp relating to the
> place stems from the fact that I prefer to create clues to mystery
> boxes, and a stamp image that represents the place of a mystery
> box is an information leak.
>
> Just curious.
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>

When I say "in my not so humble opinion", it's because my opinion's *not*
humble. I don't see any reason why it has to be. It's my opinion. I never
said my opinion was the "rule". Almost everything I say, I qualify with
saying in one way or another that it's my opinion. I do feel that the
quality of letterboxing is seriously at risk of going downhill and, as an
artist, that bothers me. And yeah, that's my opinion. It's not elitist.
It's not humble. It's just my opinion.

I'm not bossing anyone around whatsoever. If I was, there sure wouldn't be
the amount of store-bought stamps in boxes as there currently are in this
neck of the woods. Even the two that the forest preserve rangers put out as
"educational boxes" both have Hobby Lobby stamps. And I *do* mean Hobby
Lobby stamps. The same stamps that are in two other boxes in this county
already and that I *know* are sitting over at Hobby Lobby right now. I
haven't once told anybody that they *must* letterbox a certain way.

Think about it. If someone *does* have the time to go letterboxing, then
they *do* have the time to carve a stamp. It's a question of priorities.
It takes me a looong time to carve a stamp. I'm an artist who's great at
drawing, bad at carving. I'm also a perfectionist and want my stamps to be
at least as good as I can make them. So that means that I perhaps go out
searching for a few less letterboxes in order to have the extra time to do
some carving. Or, instead of making and planting 3 boxes, I might make and
plant 2 boxes, and take time and a half on carving the stamps on those two
boxes. It's totally do-able. *If* a person wants to do it. Saying they
don't have the time doesn't compute. Saying they don't want to *take* the
time is much more like it.

The same as the person who posted that they're holding down two jobs (so am
I), doing a bunch of volunteer work (so am I), etc. Again, if they have the
time to go looking for boxes or the time to plant boxes with store-bought
stamps, then they *do* have the *time* to work on making unique stamps.
Their priority just isn't there, that's all. But they *do* have the time if
they wanted to have the time. They would be spending less time on finding
boxes or maybe planting less boxes, that's all.

Like I said, when an opinion is asked for, I give my opinion. You're
totally free to give yours. I'm no "Silverback". I've been doing this 4
years or so now, maybe 5 at the very most. Other family members have been
doing it a *lot* longer, but that's in the UK, and, tho I love a lot of the
stamps in the UK, clues are too boring and I couldn't take it for long, so I
didn't and don't box in the UK. I just ooh and ahh over their journals and
admire the stamp images when I visit. They search my bags when I leave to
be sure I'm not making off with any of their journals. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:21 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


Hello Barefoot Lucy,

When someone uses the phrase "In my never humble opinion" which Mosey used,
it sounds elitist. Like their opinion is the "rule". Just because someone is
considered a silverback or old-timer on the boards doesn't mean they can
push the newbies around. Tony was voicing an opinion and Mosey came back
with a flamed response about if someone has the time to go letterboxing then
they have the time and resources to get a hold of a hand carved stamp.

I apologize if my disagreeing came off as not so humble as Mosey's post, I
really don't expect anyone to forgive me because well you know I'm a newbie
and not a silverback who knows it all.

Barrudaki- Who thinks just because someone has been around doesn't mean they
have the right to boss people around.


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Barefoot Lucy"
> "Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people display
when
> it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying
> letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that don't
always
> rely on the stamp."
> ***************************
>
> At the risk of sending this conversation over the edge to a full-fledged
> flame war, I would like to gently point out that pointing fingers and
> calling people elitist is not a way to foster conversation.
>
> I would like to suggest looking at the discussion from a little different
> angle - the folks who have been around awhile have learned the traditions
> and "old ways" to play the game. They often know the logic behind the
"why
> nots" from a personal point of view. New folks come in and have a great
> deal of enthusiasm and literally ooze with new ideas. I think both groups
> of people are great!
>
> However, those who haven't been around forever and a day may need to
realize
> that the old-timers - Silverbacks - have seen quite a few rounds of new
> folks who have come in with grand ideas and some of those ideas have
> degraded the hobby. So if they just sit back and let the new folks run
all
> over and do whatever they want to do without speaking up, the risk is that
> the hobby becomes little more than collecting belly button lint.
>
> Perhaps what you see as elitism is actually an effort to keep the
standards
> high. I think precious few folks on here would say that store-boughts are
> NEVER okay or drive-by boxes are ALWAYS bad boxes, but by speaking out
about
> why they don't like those, Silverbacks are trying to prevent the standards
> from being lowered across the board.
>
> A little tolerance all the way around would go a long way, but new folks -
> respect those who have been at it for several years. Silverbacks -
remember
> you were new once too and didn't want to be discouraged on every turn!
>
> --
> Barefoot Lucy
> "It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

From: "xxxxxxxx"
>
> Letterboxing
> is near the top of my list of interests IF it means looking for a unique
> stamp. If it's a store-bought stamp, I have other things I'd rather do than
> letterbox. If there were only store-bought stamps, I wouldn't be a
> letterboxer.

What makes you think that a hand-carved stamp is a guarantee of uniqueness? Many people who carve their own stamps don't draw their own images, rather just use stock clip-art images. I have personally found 2 hand-carved stamps with the exact same image, planted only a few hours from one another in Michigan. It didn't really bother me one way or the other, actually I found it amusing, but I am assuming that following your logic this would be terribly disappointing to you and a waste of your time?

There is such a wide variety of store-bought stamps available that I would think the chances of finding unique purchased stamps would be pretty good. I am not advocating store-bought stamps because I enjoy seeing the creativity of hand-carved work, but I don't really get the attitude that a super crappy hand-carved stamp is better than an unique and artsy store-bought stamp or that store-bought stamps are the art of the devil.

I also think that many people who plant a letterbox or two with store-bought stamps eventually decide to give carving a try. My first few boxes had store-bought stamps -- 5 years ago it wasn't a big deal -- we just wanted boxes to find. To this day I still get great comments on those boxes, which offer very scenic hikes in a great Lake Michigan park. Coming across so negatively about store-boughts is very discouraging to new letterboxers who are caught up in the game but just not ready to try their hand at carving yet -- despite what you think, carving does not come easily to everyone and just because it seems natural to you, does not mean that is the case for everyone else. I know of a letterboxing family that after finding several boxes over a period of about 6 months, excitedly purchased stamps, logbooks and boxes for their first plants, a 3-box series. It was a neat idea for a series and the boxes were in some fun locations. I was happy to hear that they had made the move
from finders to planters (more boxes for me to find). They had a great weekend running around planting their boxes and were excited about writing up the clues in a story. About the same time, they joined up with one of the Yahoo groups, deciding they should get involved with their regional LB community now that they were "true" letterboxers (planters as well as finders). After reading a string of posts slamming store-bought stamps, they decided to not even post the clues to their boxes, fearing that people would be disappointed and angry about finding their boxes with store-bought stamps. I find it really sad that their enthusiasm for the hobby was squelched because of some narrow-minded attitudes.

SpringChick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So here's another opinion.. also not so humble...

I would prefer not to find store bought stamps. If I want those images, I
can go and buy them from the art store. It is the heart that a person puts
into a stamp that makes it special to me. AND, the disability bit isn't
buying it for me. I have taught young children to carve, one as young as 3
years old. I know people who carve that are legally blind. I know people
that carve that have severe arthritis. It takes different skills and
different levels of "finesse" but you know what, I love them all.

Maiden

_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:51 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Cc: xxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


I was and still am looking forward to other people's opinions about store
bought stamps however, post like yours will not help to swade my opinion
about certain types of stamps.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
>
>
> Are people more disappointed to find no stamp (e.g., because it
> was stolen), or a store bought one?
>
To me it's the same thing. If it's a store bought I usualy don't even collect the image. Carving
is just not that hard, if you can write your name you can carve.

There are a few boxes out there I know are missing but I'm still solving clues for, it does not
matter the box is gone. There is a certain local box I've walked the clues for many times that
will drive me nuts till I find where it was.
The longer I letterbox it's less about the box.

> I do find this topic fascinating, as I don't care even if the box
> is there (and it baffles me that people whine about missing boxes,
> store bought stamps, need assurances that the boxes are there, etc.).
> To each their own, and likewise I imagine it baffles others when
> I blow them off when they ask these things of me.

The only possibility I can think of that might qualify would be if someone
were actually missing a hand, particularly if, say, they'd been right-handed
and lost their right hand or had been left-handed and lost their left hand.
Then I could understand why they might have to go with a store-bought stamp.

Other than that, any handicap out there that I can think of that might be
used in an argument for a person to not have to come up with a unique
stamp.........well........there are boxers who will have shown that the
handicap can be overcome. It's seems more a matter to me of do they want to
overcome the handicap? And I certainly am not "bossing" anyone around and
telling anyone that they *must* overcome a handicap. But, on the other
hand, they also can't tell me that I *must* wish to look for their box.
Letterboxing, to me, is art. For me, that's what sets it apart from
geocaching. Not the difference between trinkets and stamps, but the
difference between trinkets and art. It can be art by a single person, or
it can be a collaboration, but store-bought stamps are not art to me.

And, frankly, the boxers who seem to bring up disabilities as a reason for
using store-bought stasmps never really seem to be the ones *with* those
disabilities. Or maybe they're disabled and just not saying so. There's
absolutely no way, of course, of actually knowing what the statistics are,
but I've got a teeny tiny sneaky hunch that there aren't all *that* many
store-bought stamp letterboxes sitting out there placed by disabled boxers
who are disabled in such a way that they feel they have to go with a
store-bought stamp. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of melanie
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:15 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


So here's another opinion.. also not so humble...

I would prefer not to find store bought stamps. If I want those images, I
can go and buy them from the art store. It is the heart that a person puts
into a stamp that makes it special to me. AND, the disability bit isn't
buying it for me. I have taught young children to carve, one as young as 3
years old. I know people who carve that are legally blind. I know people
that carve that have severe arthritis. It takes different skills and
different levels of "finesse" but you know what, I love them all.

Maiden

_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:51 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Cc: xxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


I was and still am looking forward to other people's opinions about store
bought stamps however, post like yours will not help to swade my opinion
about certain types of stamps.

1. Anything that's one of a kind and made by someone is unique because
someone took the time to sit down and actually carve it and make it their
own artwork.

2. There is no such thing as a unique purchased stamp from a store. No
matter how one looks at it, they're mass-produced. I don't mind a crappy
hand-carved stamp because, as I said in a previous post, I'm assuming that
the artist did give it their best shot. Like someone else posted, some of
these "crappy" stamps are being made by very young children or people who
have disabilities but who still carve. So crappy is all in the eye of the
beholder, I guess.

3. Carving does not come easily to me. And since you're quoting my post, I
have to assume you're referring to me. How many times have I said on this
list how difficult carving is for me??? I'll say it over and over again.
What some people can carve in 2 or 3 or 4 hours might take me a couple of
months of trying to carve. That's why I make so few boxes. It takes me
forever just to carve one stamp. It's NOT easy for me. My vision is shot
plus I've got fibromyalgia and three disintegrated discs in my back which
make sitting or standing in one position for any amount of time pretty
unbearable.

But I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize to anyone for the reason that I
box -- I don't box for the hike, I don't box for the fresh air, I don't box
to give the kiddies an activity to do, I don't box for the scenery, I box
for the stamp images -- and I'm not going to apologize to anyone for giving
my opinion if the question is asked because my opinion might make someone
feel badly. Some original poster asked if people felt store-bought vs.
unique actually mattered. That question comes up over and over again on the
list. They ARE going to run into other boxers for whom the type of stamp
matters and boxers for whom it doesn't matter whatsoever. If that stops
them from boxing, let's all just shove our opinions into a drawer and go on
home and not even have a list.

Or maybe whoever the listowner is should be "bossy" and make a rule stating
the question can no longer be asked so that it can no longer be answered.
:-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of letterbox@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:30 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


From: "xxxxxxxx"
>
> Letterboxing
> is near the top of my list of interests IF it means looking for a unique
> stamp. If it's a store-bought stamp, I have other things I'd rather do
than
> letterbox. If there were only store-bought stamps, I wouldn't be a
> letterboxer.

What makes you think that a hand-carved stamp is a guarantee of uniqueness?
Many people who carve their own stamps don't draw their own images, rather
just use stock clip-art images. I have personally found 2 hand-carved
stamps with the exact same image, planted only a few hours from one another
in Michigan. It didn't really bother me one way or the other, actually I
found it amusing, but I am assuming that following your logic this would be
terribly disappointing to you and a waste of your time?

There is such a wide variety of store-bought stamps available that I would
think the chances of finding unique purchased stamps would be pretty good.
I am not advocating store-bought stamps because I enjoy seeing the
creativity of hand-carved work, but I don't really get the attitude that a
super crappy hand-carved stamp is better than an unique and artsy
store-bought stamp or that store-bought stamps are the art of the devil.

I also think that many people who plant a letterbox or two with store-bought
stamps eventually decide to give carving a try. My first few boxes had
store-bought stamps -- 5 years ago it wasn't a big deal -- we just wanted
boxes to find. To this day I still get great comments on those boxes, which
offer very scenic hikes in a great Lake Michigan park. Coming across so
negatively about store-boughts is very discouraging to new letterboxers who
are caught up in the game but just not ready to try their hand at carving
yet -- despite what you think, carving does not come easily to everyone and
just because it seems natural to you, does not mean that is the case for
everyone else. I know of a letterboxing family that after finding several
boxes over a period of about 6 months, excitedly purchased stamps, logbooks
and boxes for their first plants, a 3-box series. It was a neat idea for a
series and the boxes were in some fun locations. I was happy to hear that
they had made the move
from finders to planters (more boxes for me to find). They had a great
weekend running around planting their boxes and were excited about writing
up the clues in a story. About the same time, they joined up with one of
the Yahoo groups, deciding they should get involved with their regional LB
community now that they were "true" letterboxers (planters as well as
finders). After reading a string of posts slamming store-bought stamps,
they decided to not even post the clues to their boxes, fearing that people
would be disappointed and angry about finding their boxes with store-bought
stamps. I find it really sad that their enthusiasm for the hobby was
squelched because of some narrow-minded attitudes.

SpringChick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

I agree, Mosey. I am missing both arms and legs, but I held a razor blade in my teeth and carved my first stamp.

xxxxxxxx wrote: The only possibility I can think of that might qualify would be if someone
were actually missing a hand, particularly if, say, they'd been right-handed
and lost their right hand or had been left-handed and lost their left hand.
Then I could understand why they might have to go with a store-bought stamp.

Other than that, any handicap out there that I can think of that might be
used in an argument for a person to not have to come up with a unique
stamp.........well........there are boxers who will have shown that the
handicap can be overcome. It's seems more a matter to me of do they want to
overcome the handicap? And I certainly am not "bossing" anyone around and
telling anyone that they *must* overcome a handicap. But, on the other
hand, they also can't tell me that I *must* wish to look for their box.
Letterboxing, to me, is art. For me, that's what sets it apart from
geocaching. Not the difference between trinkets and stamps, but the
difference between trinkets and art. It can be art by a single person, or
it can be a collaboration, but store-bought stamps are not art to me.

And, frankly, the boxers who seem to bring up disabilities as a reason for
using store-bought stasmps never really seem to be the ones *with* those
disabilities. Or maybe they're disabled and just not saying so. There's
absolutely no way, of course, of actually knowing what the statistics are,
but I've got a teeny tiny sneaky hunch that there aren't all *that* many
store-bought stamp letterboxes sitting out there placed by disabled boxers
who are disabled in such a way that they feel they have to go with a
store-bought stamp. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of melanie
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:15 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........

So here's another opinion.. also not so humble...

I would prefer not to find store bought stamps. If I want those images, I
can go and buy them from the art store. It is the heart that a person puts
into a stamp that makes it special to me. AND, the disability bit isn't
buying it for me. I have taught young children to carve, one as young as 3
years old. I know people who carve that are legally blind. I know people
that carve that have severe arthritis. It takes different skills and
different levels of "finesse" but you know what, I love them all.

Maiden

_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:51 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Cc: xxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........

I was and still am looking forward to other people's opinions about store
bought stamps however, post like yours will not help to swade my opinion
about certain types of stamps.






"If we ever forget that we are a Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."

- Ronald Reagan


---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mosey,

If you are suggesting that I have contacted you off list your are wrong. What I wrote below did in fact go out to the list.



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "xxxxxxxx"

> You can respond however you want. I haven't once complained about the way
> you responded. I never once said I didn't like the way you responded.
> Others did. Not me. And I'm not trying in the least to sway your opinion or
> even care if you "hear" my opinion or not. You give your opinion. I give
> mine. I even invited you to use the delete button when it comes to my
> opinions.
>
> I especially am never bothered by another poster so much that I have to
> contact them privately and feel for whatever reason that I shouldn't be
> posting what I have to say to the list. :-)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: barrudaki@comcast.net [mailto:barrudaki@comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:51 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: xxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
>
>
> Don't have a problem with a different opinion, but if you are going to act
> like your opinion is the word of the allmighty then don't expect your "never
> so humble opinion" to really be heard.
>
> Your never so humble opinion from your original post didn't leave room for
> some with disability (funny how your response does now), nor does it leave
> room for someone who maybe doesn't have the money or passion to spend on a
> company to make their stamp. Your never so humble opinion also does not
> leave room for someone who is just starting out and may not have your
> connections to get someone to carve them a stamp. Your never so humble
> opinion has been noted and I responded in a not so humble way to it. If you
> don't like how I responded then maybe you should look closer at how you
> boast your never humble opinion.
>
> There are several reasons why someone may decide to use a store bought stamp
> despite your never so humble opinion. You obviously have your way about how
> things should be and others have their ways. I was and still am looking
> forward to other people's opinions about store bought stamps however, post
> like yours will not help to swade my opinion about certain types of stamps.
> Those type of elitist "never so humble" opinions post only tells me the
> person behind it is too bent on voicing "their way" and is too close minded
> to see how other ways may work.
>
> You can respond how you want I'll no longer be responding to this part of
> the thread. I've said my piece
>
> -Barrudaki
>
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "xxxxxxxx"
> > There's nothing elitist about it. Why, when someone's opinion doesn't
> match
> > someone else's opinion, is the first person's opinion suddenly elitist?
> > It's my opinion, based on what I like about letterboxing. And for what
> it's
> > worth, stamps can be very cheap to have a company make. nwstamps.com can
> > often make them up for less than they can be bought at Hobby Lobby if a
> > person emails them their drawing.
> >
> > Just because a stamp is "no longer in print" (I'm not sure how a stamp can
> > be "in print" anyway but I'll use that phrase since you did), doesn't mean
> > there aren't an awfully lot of 'em out there. But that doesn't matter.
> It
> > might be no longer "in print" but I probably have one of 'em. It's still
> not
> > a unique stamp. It was mass produced at some point by someone who had
> > nothing to do with letterboxing. I don't care to find those kinds of
> > stamps. That's my opinion. Your mileage may certainly vary. Heck, if
> > it's "a poochie stamp from the 80s", I probably have it already.
> >
> > If I had a disability that kept me from carving a stamp by myself, I
> would,
> > as I suggested in my post, find someone interested in collaborating with
> me
> > in making boxes. That's assuming that my disability allowed me to plant
> > letterboxes at all. There do happen to be folks around that like the
> > carving aspect but don't like the planting part of it. But I also don't
> > really think I'd mind cuttin' a person like that some slack.
> Unfortunately,
> > those don't exactly seem to be the folks placing the store-bought stamps
> for
> > the most part.
> >
> > Right now there are plenty of different styles of boxing around that folks
> > can pick and choose what they like. But the way it's been headed, I'm not
> > all that sure that's going to last. We don't have "thousands" of boxes in
> > this neck of the woods, and many many more new folks are going the
> > store-bought route 'round here. I can foresee that ending up being
> > considered the "norm". And that's OK -- I just won't be boxing anymore
> > then. I neither live to box nor box to live. :-)
> >
> > If you notice, on this list, I rarely give an opinion unless an opinion is
> > requested in a post. But if someone is going to ask a question and wants
> > opinions, then sorry, yes, I feel I have a right to give my opinion. I
> > guess you'd just rather hear the opinions from the folks who love
> > store-bought stamps. Oh well. If you don't like it, hit that good ol'
> > delete button when you see my email addy pop up. Unless ya do that,
> you'll
> > be listening to my opinion when a request for opinions pops up. Sorry
> 'bout
> > that. Nah.........really I'm not.
> >
> > ~~ Mosey ~~
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:02 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
> >
> >
> > Wow Mosey, I mean wow. Heaven forbid the placer of a box has some
> disability
> > that would keep them from carving a stamp and maybe they don't have your
> > connection or money to have someone else or a company make their stamp for
> > them. In my not so humble opinion that is a really high horsed position
> you
> > have there.
> >
> > My first box was DARE I say a store bought stamp. It was store bought
> > because *I* liked the stamp and felt it was appropriate for the location.
> > DARE I say I helped my fiancee place her letterbox with a NO LONGER IN
> PRINT
> > store bought stamp or that she uses another NO LONGER IN PRINT store
> bought
> > stamp for her regular stamp.
> >
> > Heaven forbid someone uses a poochie stamp from the 80's to place in their
> > box instead of a hand carved stamp. You know sometimes, just sometimes a
> > store bought stamp can be just as good or better than a carved stamp
> because
> > it still can be a rare find.
> >
> > Lucky there are thousands of DIFFERENT letterboxes to chose from and
> > thankfully not all the placer go by "I'm better than you elitist rules".
> >
> > Barrudaki- Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people
> > display when it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of
> > varying letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
> > don't always rely on the stamp.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the
> time,
> > > patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique
> stamp
> > or
> > > do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them make
> a
> > > stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a
> matter
> > of
> > > priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you
> > then
> > > have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with
> someone
> > > who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and
> > make
> > > it a team effort.)
> > >
> > > The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea is
> > > sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure,
> you
> > > could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve
> > ball
> > > and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve ball
> > and
> > > then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
> > > ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.
> > >
> > > Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears.
> There's
> > a
> > > good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my
> first
> > > and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself
> > on
> > > the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
> > > strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee, mum's
> > gone
> > > off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
> > > Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his
> > masterpieces
> > > destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
> > > think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time
> > around.
> > > Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.
> > >
> > > Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself.
> Done
> > > right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no
> > Wilke
> > > button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job
> > *half*
> > > well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything
> > less
> > > should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those cheap
> > > prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in the
> > > house.
> > >
> > > ~~ Mosey ~~
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Funny you should say this, Mosey. My friend was right-handed and lost her right hand (pipe bomb) and is capable of carving.

There goes the last excuse.

haha...

ClioMouse

xxxxxxxx wrote:
The only possibility I can think of that might qualify would be if someone
were actually missing a hand, particularly if, say, they'd been right-handed
and lost their right hand or had been left-handed and lost their left hand.
Then I could understand why they might have to go with a store-bought stamp.

Other than that, any handicap out there that I can think of that might be
used in an argument for a person to not have to come up with a unique
stamp.........well........there are boxers who will have shown that the
handicap can be overcome. It's seems more a matter to me of do they want to
overcome the handicap? And I certainly am not "bossing" anyone around and
telling anyone that they *must* overcome a handicap. But, on the other
hand, they also can't tell me that I *must* wish to look for their box.
Letterboxing, to me, is art. For me, that's what sets it apart from
geocaching. Not the difference between trinkets and stamps, but the
difference between trinkets and art. It can be art by a single person, or
it can be a collaboration, but store-bought stamps are not art to me.

And, frankly, the boxers who seem to bring up disabilities as a reason for
using store-bought stasmps never really seem to be the ones *with* those
disabilities. Or maybe they're disabled and just not saying so. There's
absolutely no way, of course, of actually knowing what the statistics are,
but I've got a teeny tiny sneaky hunch that there aren't all *that* many
store-bought stamp letterboxes sitting out there placed by disabled boxers
who are disabled in such a way that they feel they have to go with a
store-bought stamp. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of melanie
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:15 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........

So here's another opinion.. also not so humble...

I would prefer not to find store bought stamps. If I want those images, I
can go and buy them from the art store. It is the heart that a person puts
into a stamp that makes it special to me. AND, the disability bit isn't
buying it for me. I have taught young children to carve, one as young as 3
years old. I know people who carve that are legally blind. I know people
that carve that have severe arthritis. It takes different skills and
different levels of "finesse" but you know what, I love them all.

Maiden

_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:51 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Cc: xxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........

I was and still am looking forward to other people's opinions about store
bought stamps however, post like yours will not help to swade my opinion
about certain types of stamps.






---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for the post Springchick.

Those are my feelings exactly, there are boxers out there that are just getting into planting boxes and are maybe using store bought stamps for their first box. My first box is a store bought stamp because I felt it went with the location. I also wanted the experience to be a learning expereince about planting my next boxes. I do happen to think each box planting is a learning experience that can be used to help the planter grow with the hobby. The planter gets feedback from others good, bad, constructive, or not so constructive and they can use that feedback to help shape the adventure for their next planting.

It's obvious on the list people differ about how emersed someone should get into letterboxing. Some think you should do it their way from the get go don't bother learning anything else, while others like the idea of growing, branching out and trying different things, even if someone blast them because their idea differs from another.

I hope your friends do end up planting their letterboxes even if they are using *gasp* store bought stamps.

Barrudaki


-------------- Original message --------------
From: letterbox@comcast.net
From: "xxxxxxxx"
>
> Letterboxing
> is near the top of my list of interests IF it means looking for a unique
> stamp. If it's a store-bought stamp, I have other things I'd rather do than
> letterbox. If there were only store-bought stamps, I wouldn't be a
> letterboxer.

What makes you think that a hand-carved stamp is a guarantee of uniqueness? Many people who carve their own stamps don't draw their own images, rather just use stock clip-art images. I have personally found 2 hand-carved stamps with the exact same image, planted only a few hours from one another in Michigan. It didn't really bother me one way or the other, actually I found it amusing, but I am assuming that following your logic this would be terribly disappointing to you and a waste of your time?

There is such a wide variety of store-bought stamps available that I would think the chances of finding unique purchased stamps would be pretty good. I am not advocating store-bought stamps because I enjoy seeing the creativity of hand-carved work, but I don't really get the attitude that a super crappy hand-carved stamp is better than an unique and artsy store-bought stamp or that store-bought stamps are the art of the devil.

I also think that many people who plant a letterbox or two with store-bought stamps eventually decide to give carving a try. My first few boxes had store-bought stamps -- 5 years ago it wasn't a big deal -- we just wanted boxes to find. To this day I still get great comments on those boxes, which offer very scenic hikes in a great Lake Michigan park. Coming across so negatively about store-boughts is very discouraging to new letterboxers who are caught up in the game but just not ready to try their hand at carving yet -- despite what you think, carving does not come easily to everyone and just because it seems natural to you, does not mean that is the case for everyone else. I know of a letterboxing family that after finding several boxes over a period of about 6 months, excitedly purchased stamps, logbooks and boxes for their first plants, a 3-box series. It was a neat idea for a series and the boxes were in some fun locations. I was happy to hear that they had made the move
from finders to planters (more boxes for me to find). They had a great weekend running around planting their boxes and were excited about writing up the clues in a story. About the same time, they joined up with one of the Yahoo groups, deciding they should get involved with their regional LB community now that they were "true" letterboxers (planters as well as finders). After reading a string of posts slamming store-bought stamps, they decided to not even post the clues to their boxes, fearing that people would be disappointed and angry about finding their boxes with store-bought stamps. I find it really sad that their enthusiasm for the hobby was squelched because of some narrow-minded attitudes.

SpringChick

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This always seems to be such an interesting topic, and I really
don't know why people get so up in arms over this.

I'm one of those people who don't hand carve stamps, and probably
never will. I'm not artistic and don't want to put out a "crappy
hand-carved stamp." However, all of my clues indicate that my stamps
are store bought. Hopefully that helps people decide whether or not
to go on the hunt for my boxes. I have to say, not once in any of my
logbooks has anyone said anything negative about the stamp, just
positive statements about how they loved the hike or the area I
planted in.

I know on AQ, there is an icon that can be used to let the finder
know what type of stamp is in the box, That doesn't exist on LbNA,
but like I said earlier, I just list that it is a store-bought stamp
in the clues. No big deal to do it, and it may keep people from
being frustrated in the end.

Good hunting all,

Jaxx



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, barrudaki@... wrote:
>
> Thank you for the post Springchick.
>
> Those are my feelings exactly, there are boxers out there that are
just getting into planting boxes and are maybe using store bought
stamps for their first box. My first box is a store bought stamp
because I felt it went with the location. I also wanted the
experience to be a learning expereince about planting my next boxes.
I do happen to think each box planting is a learning experience that
can be used to help the planter grow with the hobby. The planter
gets feedback from others good, bad, constructive, or not so
constructive and they can use that feedback to help shape the
adventure for their next planting.
>
> It's obvious on the list people differ about how emersed someone
should get into letterboxing. Some think you should do it their way
from the get go don't bother learning anything else, while others
like the idea of growing, branching out and trying different things,
even if someone blast them because their idea differs from another.
>
> I hope your friends do end up planting their letterboxes even if
they are using *gasp* store bought stamps.
>
> Barrudaki
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: letterbox@...
> From: "xxxxxxxx"
> >
> > Letterboxing
> > is near the top of my list of interests IF it means looking for
a unique
> > stamp. If it's a store-bought stamp, I have other things I'd
rather do than
> > letterbox. If there were only store-bought stamps, I wouldn't be
a
> > letterboxer.
>
> What makes you think that a hand-carved stamp is a guarantee of
uniqueness? Many people who carve their own stamps don't draw their
own images, rather just use stock clip-art images. I have personally
found 2 hand-carved stamps with the exact same image, planted only a
few hours from one another in Michigan. It didn't really bother me
one way or the other, actually I found it amusing, but I am assuming
that following your logic this would be terribly disappointing to
you and a waste of your time?
>
> There is such a wide variety of store-bought stamps available that
I would think the chances of finding unique purchased stamps would
be pretty good. I am not advocating store-bought stamps because I
enjoy seeing the creativity of hand-carved work, but I don't really
get the attitude that a super crappy hand-carved stamp is better
than an unique and artsy store-bought stamp or that store-bought
stamps are the art of the devil.
>
> I also think that many people who plant a letterbox or two with
store-bought stamps eventually decide to give carving a try. My
first few boxes had store-bought stamps -- 5 years ago it wasn't a
big deal -- we just wanted boxes to find. To this day I still get
great comments on those boxes, which offer very scenic hikes in a
great Lake Michigan park. Coming across so negatively about store-
boughts is very discouraging to new letterboxers who are caught up
in the game but just not ready to try their hand at carving yet --
despite what you think, carving does not come easily to everyone and
just because it seems natural to you, does not mean that is the case
for everyone else. I know of a letterboxing family that after
finding several boxes over a period of about 6 months, excitedly
purchased stamps, logbooks and boxes for their first plants, a 3-box
series. It was a neat idea for a series and the boxes were in some
fun locations. I was happy to hear that they had made the move
> from finders to planters (more boxes for me to find). They had a
great weekend running around planting their boxes and were excited
about writing up the clues in a story. About the same time, they
joined up with one of the Yahoo groups, deciding they should get
involved with their regional LB community now that they were "true"
letterboxers (planters as well as finders). After reading a string
of posts slamming store-bought stamps, they decided to not even post
the clues to their boxes, fearing that people would be disappointed
and angry about finding their boxes with store-bought stamps. I find
it really sad that their enthusiasm for the hobby was squelched
because of some narrow-minded attitudes.
>
> SpringChick
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Very nice ,said it all !

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bobby"
This always seems to be such an interesting topic, and I really
don't know why people get so up in arms over this.

I'm one of those people who don't hand carve stamps, and probably
never will. I'm not artistic and don't want to put out a "crappy
hand-carved stamp." However, all of my clues indicate that my stamps
are store bought. Hopefully that helps people decide whether or not
to go on the hunt for my boxes. I have to say, not once in any of my
logbooks has anyone said anything negative about the stamp, just
positive statements about how they loved the hike or the area I
planted in.

I know on AQ, there is an icon that can be used to let the finder
know what type of stamp is in the box, That doesn't exist on LbNA,
but like I said earlier, I just list that it is a store-bought stamp
in the clues. No big deal to do it, and it may keep people from
being frustrated in the end.

Good hunting all,

Jaxx

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, barrudaki@... wrote:
>
> Thank you for the post Springchick.
>
> Those are my feelings exactly, there are boxers out there that are
just getting into planting boxes and are maybe using store bought
stamps for their first box. My first box is a store bought stamp
because I felt it went with the location. I also wanted the
experience to be a learning expereince about planting my next boxes.
I do happen to think each box planting is a learning experience that
can be used to help the planter grow with the hobby. The planter
gets feedback from others good, bad, constructive, or not so
constructive and they can use that feedback to help shape the
adventure for their next planting.
>
> It's obvious on the list people differ about how emersed someone
should get into letterboxing. Some think you should do it their way
from the get go don't bother learning anything else, while others
like the idea of growing, branching out and trying different things,
even if someone blast them because their idea differs from another.
>
> I hope your friends do end up planting their letterboxes even if
they are using *gasp* store bought stamps.
>
> Barrudaki
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: letterbox@...
> From: "xxxxxxxx"
> >
> > Letterboxing
> > is near the top of my list of interests IF it means looking for
a unique
> > stamp. If it's a store-bought stamp, I have other things I'd
rather do than
> > letterbox. If there were only store-bought stamps, I wouldn't be
a
> > letterboxer.
>
> What makes you think that a hand-carved stamp is a guarantee of
uniqueness? Many people who carve their own stamps don't draw their
own images, rather just use stock clip-art images. I have personally
found 2 hand-carved stamps with the exact same image, planted only a
few hours from one another in Michigan. It didn't really bother me
one way or the other, actually I found it amusing, but I am assuming
that following your logic this would be terribly disappointing to
you and a waste of your time?
>
> There is such a wide variety of store-bought stamps available that
I would think the chances of finding unique purchased stamps would
be pretty good. I am not advocating store-bought stamps because I
enjoy seeing the creativity of hand-carved work, but I don't really
get the attitude that a super crappy hand-carved stamp is better
than an unique and artsy store-bought stamp or that store-bought
stamps are the art of the devil.
>
> I also think that many people who plant a letterbox or two with
store-bought stamps eventually decide to give carving a try. My
first few boxes had store-bought stamps -- 5 years ago it wasn't a
big deal -- we just wanted boxes to find. To this day I still get
great comments on those boxes, which offer very scenic hikes in a
great Lake Michigan park. Coming across so negatively about store-
boughts is very discouraging to new letterboxers who are caught up
in the game but just not ready to try their hand at carving yet --
despite what you think, carving does not come easily to everyone and
just because it seems natural to you, does not mean that is the case
for everyone else. I know of a letterboxing family that after
finding several boxes over a period of about 6 months, excitedly
purchased stamps, logbooks and boxes for their first plants, a 3-box
series. It was a neat idea for a series and the boxes were in some
fun locations. I was happy to hear that they had made the move
> from finders to planters (more boxes for me to find). They had a
great weekend running around planting their boxes and were excited
about writing up the clues in a story. About the same time, they
joined up with one of the Yahoo groups, deciding they should get
involved with their regional LB community now that they were "true"
letterboxers (planters as well as finders). After reading a string
of posts slamming store-bought stamps, they decided to not even post
the clues to their boxes, fearing that people would be disappointed
and angry about finding their boxes with store-bought stamps. I find
it really sad that their enthusiasm for the hobby was squelched
because of some narrow-minded attitudes.
>
> SpringChick
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great discussion, even if at times it's a bit heated. It definitely shows that people are passionate about the hobby. And we all enjoy it for different reasons.

If it's mostly about the hike and visiting new places then the finder might not care what type of stamp is in the box.

If it's about collecting personal bits of one-of-a-kind art, then the carved stamp image will be very important to that finder.

One way that the hider can garner the right audience for their box is to provide enough information in the clues so the finder can make the right choice that suits their letterboxing personality. I think most of the folks who confessed to being disappointed by store bought stamps were disappointed because it was a surprise - either the clues didn't mention what type of stamp was in the box, or the clues indicated a hand-carved stamp but the box contained a store bought stamp.

Lone R


"I don't know what you are going to do, but I know I can't lie around
and be lazy. I am a Thing-Finder, and when you're a Thing-Finder you
don't have a minute to spare....The whole world is full of things, and
somebody has to look for them. And that's just what a Thing-Finder does.
-Pippi Longstocking

---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I never suggested I was the one with a disability, I was offering it as maybe a reason not an excuse for using store bought stamps. It is nice to know there are people who think a disability is an excuse though, gives an insight to their frame of mind.

The reason I gave that suggestion was because there are other reason other than doing something "half-way". There are plenty of reasons why someone would choose, oh my that's an unusual word to use in this debate, choose.

1. Yes the person may not have blocks of time to carve a stamp, they maybe able to sit down for 3 to 4 hours at a time to carve a stamp and if they do stumble upon a block of time then it is their choice (wow there is another variation of that word again.) to use that time on something else, hmmm maybe catching up on something else that isn't letterboxing. (Oh my you mean there are people out there who think about more than letterboxing in their spare time.)

2. Maybe someone does have a disability that cripples the use of their hands. Just because it's not on an "approved" list some where doesn't mean it just an excuse to get out do doing something. I.E. how would you recommend someone with severe cerbal palsy who's hands are permantely in a fist and their thumb are turned in wards. I know what you are thinking, that person probably wouldn't be letterboxing because they can't walk. However, the person may not be able to walk but they do have a wheel chair that allows them go over rugged terrain, they maybe more limited than others on the type of letterboxes they can find but are they some how less of a letterboxer because of it? Again maybe they don't have the connection, money, etc to get an stamp done for them, now what they shouldn't bother planting a box because it's not up to someone else's standards?

3. Maybe the planter actually liked the store bought stamp a thought it would be good in a letter box. Sure a finder can go buy the stamp if they want the image, but really would you pay the 7,8,9 dollars for the image when you can go get it for free because someone planted it.

4. The planter could have it as a temp until they carve their stamp, may they were anxious to place a box and wanted to get the experience of planting a box and getting feedback for it.

5. Maybe the planter has a different opinion about letterboxing and thinks the journey is more important than hoarding stamps, so the stamp by personal choice of the planter (wow there's that word again), has a store bought stamp.

6. The planter is new and is trying different things like planting the box for scenery first and working from there. Maybe the next box will have the combo of location of hand-carved stamp and scenery and the next location, hand-carved stamp, and intersting directions, etc, etc. getting into it little by little finding out what works for them.


Please bare in mind these are ONLY SOME reason that MAYBE considered when using a store bought stamp. I, myself, use store bought stamps, I also have carved stamps. I don't see a problem with using store bought stamps and I never will, I really don't care what reason someone may have for using store bought stamp, just like I don't care if someone uses a hand-carved stamp. If someone wants to venture into carving good for them.

Opinions aren't meant to make someone feel bad, it's funny how people seem to hide behind a statement claiming it's an opinion to chastise or belittle someone.If someone wants to word their opinion in a way that it does cause hurt feelings then maybe they shouldn't be so thin skinned when someone calls them out on it.

To everyone on the list I myself do apologize for the long winded responses, this whole thing happens to come on the heels of me going to a LBNA event and getting bullied, chastised, and yelled at because I was new, didn't have a P.T, used a store bought stamp and wrote my trail name instead of having everything on a hand carved stamp. I was yelled at by someone because according to them I absolutely had to change my stamp because their friend was using the exact same stamp and her friend obviously was using it first. The event was a real eye opener for me, there were other more friendly people there but sometimes the saying is true too many bad apples spoils the bunch.

Barrudaki- Who thinks pushing an opinion and giving an opinion are way different.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry about the double post. :(

Barrudaki

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As the writer of your post you have the capability to delete. It will
go out to those subscribing but it can be deleted from the list.
Just return to the post and look for the deletion button.

Don



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, barrudaki@... wrote:
>
> Sorry about the double post. :(
>
> Barrudaki
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Your email came to me privately about 20 minutes before I also rec'd it via
the list. And, because of that, I sent my reply to you privately, not to
the list, since I assumed that was what you wanted. You posted my email to
you to the list yourself, I didn't send it to the list. Bad netiquette.

Possibly you sent your email to both the list and to me privately, but
again, if you originally were sending it to the list also, there's no reason
for the duplicate to me privately then. Thru this discussion, you hadn't
sent me any private email prior to that.

~~ Mosey ~~



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 7:49 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


Mosey,

If you are suggesting that I have contacted you off list your are wrong.
What I wrote below did in fact go out to the list.



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "xxxxxxxx"

> You can respond however you want. I haven't once complained about the way
> you responded. I never once said I didn't like the way you responded.
> Others did. Not me. And I'm not trying in the least to sway your opinion
or
> even care if you "hear" my opinion or not. You give your opinion. I give
> mine. I even invited you to use the delete button when it comes to my
> opinions.
>
> I especially am never bothered by another poster so much that I have to
> contact them privately and feel for whatever reason that I shouldn't be
> posting what I have to say to the list. :-)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: barrudaki@comcast.net [mailto:barrudaki@comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:51 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: xxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
>
>
> Don't have a problem with a different opinion, but if you are going to act
> like your opinion is the word of the allmighty then don't expect your
"never
> so humble opinion" to really be heard.
>
> Your never so humble opinion from your original post didn't leave room for
> some with disability (funny how your response does now), nor does it leave
> room for someone who maybe doesn't have the money or passion to spend on a
> company to make their stamp. Your never so humble opinion also does not
> leave room for someone who is just starting out and may not have your
> connections to get someone to carve them a stamp. Your never so humble
> opinion has been noted and I responded in a not so humble way to it. If
you
> don't like how I responded then maybe you should look closer at how you
> boast your never humble opinion.
>
> There are several reasons why someone may decide to use a store bought
stamp
> despite your never so humble opinion. You obviously have your way about
how
> things should be and others have their ways. I was and still am looking
> forward to other people's opinions about store bought stamps however, post
> like yours will not help to swade my opinion about certain types of
stamps.
> Those type of elitist "never so humble" opinions post only tells me the
> person behind it is too bent on voicing "their way" and is too close
minded
> to see how other ways may work.
>
> You can respond how you want I'll no longer be responding to this part of
> the thread. I've said my piece
>
> -Barrudaki
>
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "xxxxxxxx"
> > There's nothing elitist about it. Why, when someone's opinion doesn't
> match
> > someone else's opinion, is the first person's opinion suddenly elitist?
> > It's my opinion, based on what I like about letterboxing. And for what
> it's
> > worth, stamps can be very cheap to have a company make. nwstamps.com can
> > often make them up for less than they can be bought at Hobby Lobby if a
> > person emails them their drawing.
> >
> > Just because a stamp is "no longer in print" (I'm not sure how a stamp
can
> > be "in print" anyway but I'll use that phrase since you did), doesn't
mean
> > there aren't an awfully lot of 'em out there. But that doesn't matter.
> It
> > might be no longer "in print" but I probably have one of 'em. It's still
> not
> > a unique stamp. It was mass produced at some point by someone who had
> > nothing to do with letterboxing. I don't care to find those kinds of
> > stamps. That's my opinion. Your mileage may certainly vary. Heck, if
> > it's "a poochie stamp from the 80s", I probably have it already.
> >
> > If I had a disability that kept me from carving a stamp by myself, I
> would,
> > as I suggested in my post, find someone interested in collaborating with
> me
> > in making boxes. That's assuming that my disability allowed me to plant
> > letterboxes at all. There do happen to be folks around that like the
> > carving aspect but don't like the planting part of it. But I also don't
> > really think I'd mind cuttin' a person like that some slack.
> Unfortunately,
> > those don't exactly seem to be the folks placing the store-bought stamps
> for
> > the most part.
> >
> > Right now there are plenty of different styles of boxing around that
folks
> > can pick and choose what they like. But the way it's been headed, I'm
not
> > all that sure that's going to last. We don't have "thousands" of boxes
in
> > this neck of the woods, and many many more new folks are going the
> > store-bought route 'round here. I can foresee that ending up being
> > considered the "norm". And that's OK -- I just won't be boxing anymore
> > then. I neither live to box nor box to live. :-)
> >
> > If you notice, on this list, I rarely give an opinion unless an opinion
is
> > requested in a post. But if someone is going to ask a question and wants
> > opinions, then sorry, yes, I feel I have a right to give my opinion. I
> > guess you'd just rather hear the opinions from the folks who love
> > store-bought stamps. Oh well. If you don't like it, hit that good ol'
> > delete button when you see my email addy pop up. Unless ya do that,
> you'll
> > be listening to my opinion when a request for opinions pops up. Sorry
> 'bout
> > that. Nah.........really I'm not.
> >
> > ~~ Mosey ~~
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:02 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
> >
> >
> > Wow Mosey, I mean wow. Heaven forbid the placer of a box has some
> disability
> > that would keep them from carving a stamp and maybe they don't have your
> > connection or money to have someone else or a company make their stamp
for
> > them. In my not so humble opinion that is a really high horsed position
> you
> > have there.
> >
> > My first box was DARE I say a store bought stamp. It was store bought
> > because *I* liked the stamp and felt it was appropriate for the
location.
> > DARE I say I helped my fiancee place her letterbox with a NO LONGER IN
> PRINT
> > store bought stamp or that she uses another NO LONGER IN PRINT store
> bought
> > stamp for her regular stamp.
> >
> > Heaven forbid someone uses a poochie stamp from the 80's to place in
their
> > box instead of a hand carved stamp. You know sometimes, just sometimes a
> > store bought stamp can be just as good or better than a carved stamp
> because
> > it still can be a rare find.
> >
> > Lucky there are thousands of DIFFERENT letterboxes to chose from and
> > thankfully not all the placer go by "I'm better than you elitist rules".
> >
> > Barrudaki- Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some
people
> > display when it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array
of
> > varying letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
> > don't always rely on the stamp.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the
> time,
> > > patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique
> stamp
> > or
> > > do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them
make
> a
> > > stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a
> matter
> > of
> > > priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you
> > then
> > > have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with
> someone
> > > who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and
> > make
> > > it a team effort.)
> > >
> > > The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea
is
> > > sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure,
> you
> > > could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve
> > ball
> > > and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve
ball
> > and
> > > then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
> > > ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.
> > >
> > > Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears.
> There's
> > a
> > > good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my
> first
> > > and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself
> > on
> > > the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
> > > strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee,
mum's
> > gone
> > > off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
> > > Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his
> > masterpieces
> > > destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
> > > think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time
> > around.
> > > Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.
> > >
> > > Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself.
> Done
> > > right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no
> > Wilke
> > > button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job
> > *half*
> > > well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything
> > less
> > > should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those
cheap
> > > prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in
the
> > > house.
> > >
> > > ~~ Mosey ~~
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

Hey, it's possible. I was seriously right-handed and this entire past
winter I had my right arm in a cast due to a smashed wrist, and I did two
stamps with my left hand. Took me the whole winter tho. :-)

Learned to write, eat, use a scissors, chop carrots, open cans, brush out
dogs and horses, clean horse hooves, and even brush my teeth with my left
hand. Learning to brush my teeth left-handed was actually by far the worst
of what I had to learn. Until that accident, I never realized just how
right-handed I really was. Ain't no more.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Clio Mouse
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:06 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


Funny you should say this, Mosey. My friend was right-handed and lost her
right hand (pipe bomb) and is capable of carving.

There goes the last excuse.

haha...

ClioMouse

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:24 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........




If someone wants to word their opinion in a way that it does cause hurt
feelings then maybe they shouldn't be so thin skinned when someone calls
them out on it.



================================

Moi?

Don't know if yer aimin' that at me or not, but in case ya are......

bwahahahahahahahaha!!

Thin skinned I'm not. Fr. John Corapi of the Roman Catholic Church might be
the only person less thin skinned than me. To those who might recognize the
name, you'll know what I mean. :-)

Sorry, I didn't think I gave that impression at all. But maybe you were
aimin' at someone else.

~~ Mosey ~~

> "Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people
> display when
> it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying
> letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
> don't always
> rely on the stamp."

There are many creative things that you can do with your letterbox
but nothing beats a hand carved or uniquely designed stamps for me. I
don't see that as elitist, just my experience.

Choi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of xxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:21 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........




-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:24 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........


Thin skinned I'm not. Fr. John Corapi of the Roman Catholic Church might be
the only person less thin skinned than me. To those who might recognize the
name, you'll know what I mean. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

==========================

Hey, I think I said that wrong! Maybe. :-)

Anyway, Fr. Corapi is the most THICK skinned person I know. And I come in a
close second.

~~ Mosey ~~

I apologize for sending it to you and the list. I had realized I did that. It was my mistake. Now leave me alone.

-Barrudaki

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "xxxxxxxx"
> Your email came to me privately about 20 minutes before I also rec'd it via
> the list. And, because of that, I sent my reply to you privately, not to
> the list, since I assumed that was what you wanted. You posted my email to
> you to the list yourself, I didn't send it to the list. Bad netiquette.
>
> Possibly you sent your email to both the list and to me privately, but
> again, if you originally were sending it to the list also, there's no reason
> for the duplicate to me privately then. Thru this discussion, you hadn't
> sent me any private email prior to that.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 7:49 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
>
>
> Mosey,
>
> If you are suggesting that I have contacted you off list your are wrong.
> What I wrote below did in fact go out to the list.
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "xxxxxxxx"
>
> > You can respond however you want. I haven't once complained about the way
> > you responded. I never once said I didn't like the way you responded.
> > Others did. Not me. And I'm not trying in the least to sway your opinion
> or
> > even care if you "hear" my opinion or not. You give your opinion. I give
> > mine. I even invited you to use the delete button when it comes to my
> > opinions.
> >
> > I especially am never bothered by another poster so much that I have to
> > contact them privately and feel for whatever reason that I shouldn't be
> > posting what I have to say to the list. :-)
> >
> > ~~ Mosey ~~
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: barrudaki@comcast.net [mailto:barrudaki@comcast.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:51 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: xxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
> >
> >
> > Don't have a problem with a different opinion, but if you are going to act
> > like your opinion is the word of the allmighty then don't expect your
> "never
> > so humble opinion" to really be heard.
> >
> > Your never so humble opinion from your original post didn't leave room for
> > some with disability (funny how your response does now), nor does it leave
> > room for someone who maybe doesn't have the money or passion to spend on a
> > company to make their stamp. Your never so humble opinion also does not
> > leave room for someone who is just starting out and may not have your
> > connections to get someone to carve them a stamp. Your never so humble
> > opinion has been noted and I responded in a not so humble way to it. If
> you
> > don't like how I responded then maybe you should look closer at how you
> > boast your never humble opinion.
> >
> > There are several reasons why someone may decide to use a store bought
> stamp
> > despite your never so humble opinion. You obviously have your way about
> how
> > things should be and others have their ways. I was and still am looking
> > forward to other people's opinions about store bought stamps however, post
> > like yours will not help to swade my opinion about certain types of
> stamps.
> > Those type of elitist "never so humble" opinions post only tells me the
> > person behind it is too bent on voicing "their way" and is too close
> minded
> > to see how other ways may work.
> >
> > You can respond how you want I'll no longer be responding to this part of
> > the thread. I've said my piece
> >
> > -Barrudaki
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: "xxxxxxxx"
> > > There's nothing elitist about it. Why, when someone's opinion doesn't
> > match
> > > someone else's opinion, is the first person's opinion suddenly elitist?
> > > It's my opinion, based on what I like about letterboxing. And for what
> > it's
> > > worth, stamps can be very cheap to have a company make. nwstamps.com can
> > > often make them up for less than they can be bought at Hobby Lobby if a
> > > person emails them their drawing.
> > >
> > > Just because a stamp is "no longer in print" (I'm not sure how a stamp
> can
> > > be "in print" anyway but I'll use that phrase since you did), doesn't
> mean
> > > there aren't an awfully lot of 'em out there. But that doesn't matter.
> > It
> > > might be no longer "in print" but I probably have one of 'em. It's still
> > not
> > > a unique stamp. It was mass produced at some point by someone who had
> > > nothing to do with letterboxing. I don't care to find those kinds of
> > > stamps. That's my opinion. Your mileage may certainly vary. Heck, if
> > > it's "a poochie stamp from the 80s", I probably have it already.
> > >
> > > If I had a disability that kept me from carving a stamp by myself, I
> > would,
> > > as I suggested in my post, find someone interested in collaborating with
> > me
> > > in making boxes. That's assuming that my disability allowed me to plant
> > > letterboxes at all. There do happen to be folks around that like the
> > > carving aspect but don't like the planting part of it. But I also don't
> > > really think I'd mind cuttin' a person like that some slack.
> > Unfortunately,
> > > those don't exactly seem to be the folks placing the store-bought stamps
> > for
> > > the most part.
> > >
> > > Right now there are plenty of different styles of boxing around that
> folks
> > > can pick and choose what they like. But the way it's been headed, I'm
> not
> > > all that sure that's going to last. We don't have "thousands" of boxes
> in
> > > this neck of the woods, and many many more new folks are going the
> > > store-bought route 'round here. I can foresee that ending up being
> > > considered the "norm". And that's OK -- I just won't be boxing anymore
> > > then. I neither live to box nor box to live. :-)
> > >
> > > If you notice, on this list, I rarely give an opinion unless an opinion
> is
> > > requested in a post. But if someone is going to ask a question and wants
> > > opinions, then sorry, yes, I feel I have a right to give my opinion. I
> > > guess you'd just rather hear the opinions from the folks who love
> > > store-bought stamps. Oh well. If you don't like it, hit that good ol'
> > > delete button when you see my email addy pop up. Unless ya do that,
> > you'll
> > > be listening to my opinion when a request for opinions pops up. Sorry
> > 'bout
> > > that. Nah.........really I'm not.
> > >
> > > ~~ Mosey ~~
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of barrudaki@comcast.net
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:02 PM
> > > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [LbNA] store bought stamps........
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow Mosey, I mean wow. Heaven forbid the placer of a box has some
> > disability
> > > that would keep them from carving a stamp and maybe they don't have your
> > > connection or money to have someone else or a company make their stamp
> for
> > > them. In my not so humble opinion that is a really high horsed position
> > you
> > > have there.
> > >
> > > My first box was DARE I say a store bought stamp. It was store bought
> > > because *I* liked the stamp and felt it was appropriate for the
> location.
> > > DARE I say I helped my fiancee place her letterbox with a NO LONGER IN
> > PRINT
> > > store bought stamp or that she uses another NO LONGER IN PRINT store
> > bought
> > > stamp for her regular stamp.
> > >
> > > Heaven forbid someone uses a poochie stamp from the 80's to place in
> their
> > > box instead of a hand carved stamp. You know sometimes, just sometimes a
> > > store bought stamp can be just as good or better than a carved stamp
> > because
> > > it still can be a rare find.
> > >
> > > Lucky there are thousands of DIFFERENT letterboxes to chose from and
> > > thankfully not all the placer go by "I'm better than you elitist rules".
> > >
> > > Barrudaki- Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some
> people
> > > display when it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array
> of
> > > varying letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
> > > don't always rely on the stamp.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If people have the time to go out letterboxing, then they have "the
> > time,
> > > > patience, or minimum amount of skill" to either hand-carve a unique
> > stamp
> > > or
> > > > do a unique drawing and send it off to a stamp company to have them
> make
> > a
> > > > stamp. That's letterboxing -- in my never humble opinion. It's a
> > matter
> > > of
> > > > priorities. Make fewer boxes then and take some of the extra time you
> > > then
> > > > have to do some artwork on your stamps. (Or even colaborate with
> > someone
> > > > who likes to carve but hates to find hiding spots and devise clues and
> > > make
> > > > it a team effort.)
> > > >
> > > > The game/sport/pasttime/hobby, to me, is the *total* idea. Your idea
> is
> > > > sort of like going out to play baseball but someone stole ball. Sure,
> > you
> > > > could go out there to the pitcher's mound and pretend to throw a curve
> > > ball
> > > > and someone could stand at the plate and pretend to hit that curve
> ball
> > > and
> > > > then someone could stand out in the outfield and pretend to catch that
> > > > ball.........but it's not a very thrilling idea.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, I get terribly upset when one of my letterboxes disappears.
> > There's
> > > a
> > > > good chance one just recently disappeared.........and it won't be my
> > first
> > > > and it won't be my last. Far from it. I stomp my feet and throw myself
> > > on
> > > > the floor and flail my arms & kick my legs, while my dogs give me the
> > > > strangest of looks...........ooooooh lookee there, lookee lookee,
> mum's
> > > gone
> > > > off the deep end again........and then I get over it. So what? Would
> > > > Michelangelo have been terribly angry to have found one of his
> > > masterpieces
> > > > destroyed? Meaning at the hand of someone other than himself? I would
> > > > think so. Would it stop him from still doing his best the next time
> > > around.
> > > > Would it stop him from creating? I don't think so.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, finding a location and devising clues is a fair job in itself.
> > Done
> > > > right, it should be. But it's only *part* of the "job", so you get no
> > > Wilke
> > > > button (I'm probably seriously dating myself here) from me for a job
> > > *half*
> > > > well-done. Letterboxing, in my never humble opinion, is art. Anything
> > > less
> > > > should be sittin' in a garage sale someplace where they sell those
> cheap
> > > > prints of cigar-smokin' dogs playin' poker that I refuse to allow in
> the
> > > > house.
> > > >
> > > > ~~ Mosey ~~
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Choi,

In no way am I saying that is elitist, however how the opinion is presented can be and that is where my post came from because a certain person thinks they can use their opinion as a weapon to brow beat someone into agreeing with them or make someone feel bad because they don't do something the same way as that peson.

-Barrudaki

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: John Chapman
>
> > "Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people
> > display when
> > it comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varying
> > letterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that
> > don't always
> > rely on the stamp."
>
> There are many creative things that you can do with your letterbox
> but nothing beats a hand carved or uniquely designed stamps for me. I
> don't see that as elitist, just my experience.
>
> Choi
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You wrote yesterday:
"You can respond how you want I'll no longer be responding to this
part of the thread. I've said my piece

-Barrudaki"

I guess we can assume you hadn't.

Please do us all a favor and do what you ask of the other poster here
and leave each other, and the topic, alone.

You two have varying opinions- so what?? There's room here for lots of
opinions. Calling someone else an elitist because they have a
differing opinion does nothing except perhaps expose your own
perceived shortcomings? I don't know and I'm too tired to analyize it
tonight, but this is obviously going no where.

You have an idea, someone else has an idea, some other third person
has another idea--who is to say who is right, who is to say who is an
elitist or a snob, or who is to say who is an ignorant fool?

One thing I've heard, another long time boxer will recognize this, I'm
sure, "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion,
still."

Next topic, Randy, please! :o)

And off again so I don't clog Randy's airwaves (which, for reasons
unknown {probably lack of sleep} makes me giggle and wonder Randy's
airwaves are the same as "the webs"?)



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, barrudaki@... wrote:
>
> I apologize for sending it to you and the list. I had realized I did
that. It was my mistake. Now leave me alone.
>
> -Barrudaki
>

alwayschaos wrote:
>
> You have an idea, someone else has an idea, some other third person
> has another idea--who is to say who is right, who is to say who is an
> elitist or a snob, or who is to say who is an ignorant fool?
>
> One thing I've heard, another long time boxer will recognize this, I'm
> sure, "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion,
> still."
>
>

OH... OH...

[Raises hand]

I've no problem calling people snobs, elitists or any other such names,
but maybe that is just me. Seems to me people just seem to have a
problem taking it in stride.

> Next topic, Randy, please! :o)
>

Wimp.

Oh, there I go again, being offensive and all. I shoudl read the rest
of this thread, but found this post so very interesting.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

867-5309

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!

now that's a response. *applause*


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: barefootlucy@gmail.comDate: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:50:16 -0500Subject: Re: [LbNA] store bought stamps........




"Who's really getting tired of the elitist attitude some people display whenit comes to a "Hobby" and who is happy there are an array of varyingletterbox placers who can find creative ways to contribute that don't alwaysrely on the stamp."***************************At the risk of sending this conversation over the edge to a full-fledgedflame war, I would like to gently point out that pointing fingers andcalling people elitist is not a way to foster conversation.I would like to suggest looking at the discussion from a little differentangle - the folks who have been around awhile have learned the traditionsand "old ways" to play the game. They often know the logic behind the "whynots" from a personal point of view. New folks come in and have a greatdeal of enthusiasm and literally ooze with new ideas. I think both groupsof people are great!However, those who haven't been around forever and a day may need to realizethat the old-timers - Silverbacks - have seen quite a few rounds of newfolks who have come in with grand ideas and some of those ideas havedegraded the hobby. So if they just sit back and let the new folks run allover and do whatever they want to do without speaking up, the risk is thatthe hobby becomes little more than collecting belly button lint.Perhaps what you see as elitism is actually an effort to keep the standardshigh. I think precious few folks on here would say that store-boughts areNEVER okay or drive-by boxes are ALWAYS bad boxes, but by speaking out aboutwhy they don't like those, Silverbacks are trying to prevent the standardsfrom being lowered across the board.A little tolerance all the way around would go a long way, but new folks -respect those who have been at it for several years. Silverbacks - rememberyou were new once too and didn't want to be discouraged on every turn!-- Barefoot Lucy"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Those are the coordinates for the GeoWoodstock VI event and you are correct. It's being held in Wheatland, Sacramento, California.

If you find a letterbox hybrid where the coordinates take you to a parking lot or trailhead, then Google Maps would definitely work. Once you arrive at the starting point, you would follow the written directions in the write-up. Here's an example (it's in Yuba City):
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=b17518ae-463d-4c4e-b471-17ddc2b6c17b
To find more geocache letterboxes in your area do an advanced search for 'letterboxes' by 'zipcode'.

It might even work for regular geocaches, although I think it would be tough if the coordinates end up in the middle of the woods. I've only once tried to find a geocache without a GPS unit and I was successful, but I really knew the area well and knew exactly which bench they were describing in the clue. I hear that there are geocachers who pride themselves in finding many caches without a GPS unit.

Gary & Elizabeth Anderson wrote:
>
>* Geocache - by latitude/longitude coordinates
>(e.g. N39 00.150 W121 25.860) and when you get
>close, by hints. Geocachers carry a GPS (Global
>Positioning System) receiver that guides them to the location.

Hey, R,,,

Those Lat/Long numbers seem to be just southeast
of Yuba City, just off of highway 65, near the
little community of Wheatland,,, which is a
little above Sacremento,,, am I close??? I have
no GPS, but ran the lat/long on Google Maps, and
that's what came up. Was thinking this might be
a poor man's way of geocacheing. :-) At least
until one can afford a GPS, of which I would
imagine there's quite a number to choose from.

Gary

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